Should the Pats be running up the score on everybody in garbage time?

[RunDownHouse]

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I'm sure they don't mind sacrificing the 1/whatever chance of Brady getting hurt via a freak tackle in order to put their team in the pantheon of greatest team ever.

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It's not a "freak accident" if you are directly increasing the chance of said accident. At that point, it's somewhere between "too bad" and "idiocy."

It just isn't possible to estimate how much risk the Pats are assigning to their stars by continuing this policy, but it is easily possible to say that it's more than if they just played other guys in the second half, or didn't run a QB sneak when up 40 in the 3rd, or whatever. It also isn't possible to say whether the team as a whole has embraced the increased risk, or if it's primarily the stars who are shouldering the extra risk that have given the OK, whether it's solely Belichick, etc. However, you can estimate the tangible benefits and come to the conclusion that the whole project is a negative freeroll. If they're lucky, they get to open a bottle of champagne just about every year, like the '72 Dolphins. If they're unlucky, someone gets hurt, with unknowable consequences.

It looks like getting caught cheating has somehow imbued Belichick with a misplaced sense of righteousness, when he should be looking at the cheating scandal with indifference at the least and atonement at the best.

[kyro]

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It looks like getting caught cheating has somehow imbued Belichick with a misplaced sense of righteousness, when he should be looking at the cheating scandal with indifference at the least and atonement at the best.

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Atonement. Right. After you, says Bill to the other 31 teams, who almost assuredly bend the rules in a similar manner.

You seem to think that a SB ring has some "value" to it and going undefeated and being seen as the most dominant team ever to step on a football field as having no value. Bill and his team view it differently.

[kyro]

Also,

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It's not a "freak accident" if you are directly increasing the chance of said accident. At that point, it's somewhere between "too bad" and "idiocy."

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Yeah, it still is. Every time Brady goes out to the field, whether it's a 38-0 game or a 0-0 game, he increases his chances of getting hurt. In both cases they can be considered freak accidents, and I don't see how you could possibly argue differently.

[RunDownHouse]

Kyro,

You're right when you say that "Every time Brady goes out to the field... he increases his chances of getting hurt." So it obviously stands to reason that if he goes onto the field for exactly one play a week, he has less chance of getting hurt than if he goes out for every single snap. Leaving him in just to score garbage points directly increases his chances of getting hurt. Add the emotions of slapping prideful athletes in the face, and it adds something more. How much increased risk he faces isn't really quantifiable, which may be why you label it "freak," but it's not like the chance of getting hit by a chandelier, it's more like the chance of getting hit walking across a freeway.

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You seem to think that a SB ring has some "value" to it and going undefeated and being seen as the most dominant team ever to step on a football field as having no value. Bill and his team view it differently.

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Well, the SB ring does have a value. If I had all of the contracts for the Pats staff and players, I could tell you exactly what that value is for each individual. Nobody could tell you how much Brady, Belichick, or Gostkowski value the pride in going undefeated, and we can only infer that someone thinks it's worth the risk of injury. It's very disingenuous to say that "Bill and his team view it differently." I guarantee you that the second string center does not place the same value on it as Belichick, but guess who's making the decision? There's no way the team is completely united on this.

Furthermore, we can also try to infer the value of going undefeated by looking at other teams that had the chance but decided the risk wasn't worth the reward. I guess the Colts come to mind immediately on that one. Dungy is an intelligent guy who didn't want to risk injury to his stars and his chances of a SB for the reward of going undefeated. Belichick is an intelligent guy who seems not to care if Brady runs a sneak in week 8 just so he can be sanctimonious about cheating. Homerism to your heart's delight, but there are very valid reasons that fans everywhere - except Boston - are deriding the Pats for their behavior.

[bottomset]

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Also,

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It's not a "freak accident" if you are directly increasing the chance of said accident. At that point, it's somewhere between "too bad" and "idiocy."

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Yeah, it still is. Every time Brady goes out to the field, whether it's a 38-0 game or a 0-0 game, he increases his chances of getting hurt. In both cases they can be considered freak accidents, and I don't see how you could possibly argue differently.

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except when its 0-0 the pats aren't 500/1 or so favorites like they are at 38-0 in the 4th

[kyro]

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Leaving him in just to score garbage points directly increases his chances of getting hurt.

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I'm well aware of this. Once again, the chances of him getting hurt have been determined by both him and his coaches to be small enough that playing one extra series is beneficial.

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Add the emotions of slapping prideful athletes in the face, and it adds something more. How much increased risk he faces isn't really quantifiable, which may be why you label it "freak," but it's not like the chance of getting hit by a chandelier, it's more like the chance of getting hit walking across a freeway.

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It's not that it's unquantifiable, it's just that you don't want to try and quantify it, understandably. But just because it's difficult to quantify doesn't mean you can automatically assume the chances of him getting hurt far outweigh any other gain the Pats might get for him staying out there one more possession.

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Well, the SB ring does have a value. If I had all of the contracts for the Pats staff and players, I could tell you exactly what that value is for each individual. Nobody could tell you how much Brady, Belichick, or Gostkowski value the pride in going undefeated, and we can only infer that someone thinks it's worth the risk of injury.

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Once again, just because you can't quantify something, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Just like you should take $100 bucks and kill a guy because you can't quantify how much his life is worth.

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It's very disingenuous to say that "Bill and his team view it differently." I guarantee you that the second string center does not place the same value on it as Belichick, but guess who's making the decision? There's no way the team is completely united on this.

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Oh, but you know how the majority of them feel? Now who's being disingenuous?

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Furthermore, we can also try to infer the value of going undefeated by looking at other teams that had the chance but decided the risk wasn't worth the reward. I guess the Colts come to mind immediately on that one. Dungy is an intelligent guy who didn't want to risk injury to his stars and his chances of a SB for the reward of going undefeated. Belichick is an intelligent guy who seems not to care if Brady runs a sneak in week 8 just so he can be sanctimonious about cheating. Homerism to your heart's delight, but there are very valid reasons that fans everywhere - except Boston - are deriding the Pats for their behavior.

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God help me. If I hear one more person talk about how awesome of a guy Dungy is and how much of a jerk Belicheck is I'll vomit. I already said things would probably be different if the Pats didn't already have 3 SB rings.

[Jack Bando]

Pre-MNF, they asked Ditka if the Pats were running up the score and he gave the "You play football for 60 minutes, how about you stop the other team." argument.

Parcells brought up the point of "If the Pats kneel on 4th and 2 and give the ball back, now they're 'disrespectful'. If they run it for a 1st, now they're 'disrespectful'. If they throw the ball, now they're 'disrespectful'.

[kyro]

also rdh, i've started to get a little off topic with my point. I didn't completely mean to say that the Patriots are totally right. I thought, in my completely useless spectatorial (it's a word) opinion, that Brady was in there one possession too long, and I stated this either in this thread or the NFL thread. But I'm not going to complain. Because I understand (at least I think I do) why they're doing what they're doing, and I'm just along for the incredible ride.

[NT!]

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The Patriots beat the Dolphins 49-28, but were upset that they squandered part of a 42-7 lead. They made sure they didn't let up against the Redskins.

Leading 38-0, Brady threw a touchdown pass to Welker. On their next possession, backup quarterback Matt Cassel kept throwing then ran for a 15-yard touchdown.

Against Peyton Manning and the Colts, the NFL's third-highest scoring team, the Patriots might have to keep piling on the points.

"Our offense is always trying to score points," Belichick said. "Why else would they go out on the field?"




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[MikeyPatriot]

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They just talked about the Pats running up the score on Sportscenter Monday night Kickoff edition with Chris Mortensen and Steve Young. Both pretty much agreed that what the Pats did vs the Redskins was over the top, and agreed that it was a mentality that stems from CameraGate. Mortensen even mentioned something about how embarassing your opponents and going over the top can "taint" the legacy even more than CameraGate! I have to admit I was surprised to hear that. Steve Young talked about his days in Tampa Bay when they were a laughing stock and how he appreciated the respect that other teams would show by stopping the beat down.

Also, some players on the Redskins were apparently unhappy, and John Clayton talks about it here.

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And Emmitt Smith told the rest of the NFL to suck it up and learn how to stop the Pats on that same show.