AC question

[bkholdem]

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it isn't an unfair premise, you can't choose where you are born on what you are born into, even in AC. You might have to make your freedom or move to it.
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That's true. So if children are born into poverty they have to make their own food or starve. If people are born into slavery they need to move to make their own freedom or stay slaves. If people are born into rat infested filth with drug addicted aids carring parents they need to make their life better or move.

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Exactly. In AC if you are born into poverty you have no right to anything except what you can make of it. You have no geographical birthright to be able to make a living in the place you are born like in a modern democracy. The right you do have is to be free and to own your _own_ property, not that of anyone else and you can't force them to share it with you. It is an AC premise I am talking about, not a modern democratic one.

So what do you do?

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When did you make your last flight to africa to donate 5-6 years of your life and wages to making the lives of the staring children living there better off?

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That isn't a valid point, under AC philosophy they have no right to my property and I am under no obligation - moral or otherwise - to share any of it, because that would be tyranny, no? Surely you aren't saying they have or should have the right to the property of others?

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I"m asking you to what degree do you put your money where your mouth is.

or maybe you prefer generousity with other poeples money?

[owsley]

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Either way, I would just point out that the majority's interests aren't so far and above the minority's interests as to be comparable to the cruelty seen in a traditional tyrannical despot....thus, not a 'tyranny of majority'.

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That's just your opinion. Sucks for those who disagree I guess.

[RedBean]

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Either way, I would just point out that the majority's interests aren't so far and above the minority's interests as to be comparable to the cruelty seen in a traditional tyrannical despot....thus, not a 'tyranny of majority'.

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That's just your opinion. Sucks for those who disagree I guess.

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You're right, it's just my opinion that the US isn't a 'tyranny of the majority', based on the definition of the concept, and on my subjective opinion that "paying taxes" isn't comparable in cruelty to traditional tyrannical practices, such as exterminating 6 million Jews.

If someone disagrees, it probably does suck to be them....but not because they disagree with me, because their having to pay all those 'unconscionable and tyrannical' taxes. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[JayTee]

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Either way, I would just point out that the majority's interests aren't so far and above the minority's interests as to be comparable to the cruelty seen in a traditional tyrannical despot....thus, not a 'tyranny of majority'.

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That's just your opinion. Sucks for those who disagree I guess.

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You're right, it's just my opinion that the US isn't a 'tyranny of the majority', based on the definition of the concept, and on my subjective opinion that "paying taxes" isn't comparable in cruelty to traditional tyrannical practices, such as exterminating 6 million Jews.

If someone disagrees, it probably does suck to be them....but not because they disagree with me, because their having to pay all those 'unconscionable and tyrannical' taxes. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

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exterminating Jews is a traditional tyrannical practice?

[RedBean]

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exterminating Jews is a traditional tyrannical practice?

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Lol...let me clarify the vague wording.

The extermination of Jews is an example of a tyrannical practice, carried out in this case by a traditional tyranny.

"Traditional" tyranny meaning the customary defintion of tyranny, ie, single ruler holding vast, if not absolute, power within a state or organization.

[owsley]

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Either way, I would just point out that the majority's interests aren't so far and above the minority's interests as to be comparable to the cruelty seen in a traditional tyrannical despot....thus, not a 'tyranny of majority'.

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That's just your opinion. Sucks for those who disagree I guess.

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You're right, it's just my opinion that the US isn't a 'tyranny of the majority', based on the definition of the concept, and on my subjective opinion that "paying taxes" isn't comparable in cruelty to traditional tyrannical practices, such as exterminating 6 million Jews.

If someone disagrees, it probably does suck to be them....but not because they disagree with me, because their having to pay all those 'unconscionable and tyrannical' taxes. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

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So for the hundreds of thousands of young black men who get their lives ruined because of the war on drugs... it just sucks to be them?

Who gets to decide where the line of "tyranny of the majority" is drawn?

[RedBean]

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So for the hundreds of thousands of young black men who get their lives ruined because of the war on drugs... it just sucks to be them?


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That's a very complex situation, and I wouldn't necessarily say "it just sucks to be them.".....but for the purposes of this discussion, I certainly wouldn't classify them as objects of tyranny.

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Who gets to decide where the line of "tyranny of the majority" is drawn?

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Whoever wants to draw it, I suppose. It's subjective.

For example, in forming my opinion, I arbitrarily drew the line somewhere between "hypothetically exterminating all jews" and "requiring the citenzry to pay taxes on income".

[tame_deuces]

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it isn't an unfair premise, you can't choose where you are born on what you are born into, even in AC. You might have to make your freedom or move to it.

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But that would be hard and/or unfair.

Cody

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Yes it would be extremely hard and extremely unfair, and I would completely oppose it to be a necessity as a democrat (not as in the party etc.), but an ACist has no claims to fairness or easy life, only freedom. You trade away the principles of equality for that freedom, because it would be tyranny to enforce equality upon everyone.

I guess you can be lucky enough in an AC setting to be born into a voluntary community who abides by those principles, but then when you are older, you are back to exactly the same decision 'If I don't like this community, I might have to move'.

[Richard Tanner]

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it isn't an unfair premise, you can't choose where you are born on what you are born into, even in AC. You might have to make your freedom or move to it.

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But that would be hard and/or unfair.

Cody

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Yes it would be extremely hard and extremely unfair, and I would completely oppose it to be a necessity as a democrat (not as in the party etc.), but an ACist has no claims to fairness or easy life, only freedom. You trade away the principles of equality for that freedom, because it would be tyranny to enforce equality upon everyone.

I guess you can be lucky enough in an AC setting to be born into a voluntary community who abides by those principles, but then when you are older, you are back to exactly the same decision 'If I don't like this community, I might have to move'.

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For what it's worth, I agree with what you're saying and I was just being a smartass.

I just always laugh at many of the "I believe in X but I won't subscribe to it because I may face harm." line. When an ACist (certainly not the only people that do this) says "I believe in AC but I won't stop paying my taxes, are you nuts they'll lock me up" I always get visions of MLK saying "Yes Jim Crow laws are unfair but if we fight them, they'll sic dogs on us and unleash fire hoses, and that'll hurt".

Cody

[tame_deuces]

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it isn't an unfair premise, you can't choose where you are born on what you are born into, even in AC. You might have to make your freedom or move to it.

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But that would be hard and/or unfair.

Cody

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Yes it would be extremely hard and extremely unfair, and I would completely oppose it to be a necessity as a democrat (not as in the party etc.), but an ACist has no claims to fairness or easy life, only freedom. You trade away the principles of equality for that freedom, because it would be tyranny to enforce equality upon everyone.

I guess you can be lucky enough in an AC setting to be born into a voluntary community who abides by those principles, but then when you are older, you are back to exactly the same decision 'If I don't like this community, I might have to move'.

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For what it's worth, I agree with what you're saying and I was just being a smartass.

I just always laugh at many of the "I believe in X but I won't subscribe to it because I may face harm." line. When an ACist (certainly not the only people that do this) says "I believe in AC but I won't stop paying my taxes, are you nuts they'll lock me up" I always get visions of MLK saying "Yes Jim Crow laws are unfair but if we fight them, they'll sic dogs on us and unleash fire hoses, and that'll hurt".

Cody

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Hey, a genuine voluntarist ( I take it from your avatar that you are one?), my apologies for not seeing the intended irony but you guys are a rare breed. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]