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#31
11-18-2007, 04:27 PM
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Re: NL100, Party: Discussion about 4betting light preflop
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Pick a better hand to do it with. If you do 4-bet trash, do it less frequently and pick something that increases our equity. But 4-betting too often planning to fold is gonna cost you if you do it too often - other than against very select opponenets. [/ QUOTE ] you understand that in the top example we need like 36% equity to call a shove. Do some pokerstoving around and you'll find that you're either going to be 4betting with a really tiny range, or somehow get him to shove with a huge range to make profitable calls. 'its going to cost you if you do it often' - think before you speak. bet/folding to 54 in a 1/2 game only has to work 56% of the time to be neutral EV (46/(36+46) i think thats right?). In alot of the ssnl games where you got all these light 3betters that don't have the balls to 5bet light you're folding out wayyyy more than 56% of their 3betting range. If not then it's not a good spot to 4bet/bluff, but just saying 'its going to cost you' without even thinking about it is a little ignorant [/ QUOTE ] Yeah, if your games are such that people just never adjust, this might be find. The problem is, that at 200nl, there are a ton of light 3-betters - which means that it won't take long before a lot of them look for ways to deal with people who adapt to them. On top of that, when someone sees you 4-bet/fold, you're gonna be pretty screwed if they make a note on you. 
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#32
11-18-2007, 04:28 PM
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Re: NL100, Party: Discussion about 4betting light preflop
[ QUOTE ]
On top of that, when someone sees you 4-bet/fold, you're gonna be pretty screwed if they make a note on you. [/ QUOTE ] Why? Just start doing it for value. [ QUOTE ] The problem is, that at 200nl, there are a ton of light 3-betters - which means that it won't take long before a lot of them look for ways to deal with people who adapt to them. [/ QUOTE ] I also disagree w/ this. There are tons of multi-tabling TAGbots that will 3-bet light...but there are VERY few that will actually re-adjust or even notice wtf you're doing. Hardly anybody 5-bet shoves light at these stakes.
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#33
11-18-2007, 04:30 PM
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Re: NL100, Party: Discussion about 4betting light preflop
The value-fold?
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#34
11-18-2007, 04:31 PM
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Re: NL100, Party: Discussion about 4betting light preflop
[ QUOTE ]
The value-fold? [/ QUOTE ] Huh? I'm saying if they catch you 4-bet/folding...just do it for value next time and be amazed at the crap they shove on you w/.
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#36
11-18-2007, 04:33 PM
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Re: NL100, Party: Discussion about 4betting light preflop
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] According setmining implied odds, that wont be sufficient before we both are very deep, so why not have a 4bet/fold mode? [/ QUOTE ] Why fold? If you have a good range that is adjusted to the frequency of someone's 4-betting, you can 4-bet and call enough of the time for it to be profitable. [/ QUOTE ] i dont mean to be nitpicky. but u just keep throwing out all these generalisations with no real reasoning. I assume you're talking about 4bet/calling with pp's here. Stove it, seriously. Like how we were talking about that 36% equity to call. for 88 to be a breakeven call we'd need the dude to be shoving 99+, AQs+, KQs, AQo+. If the dudes 5betting range is that huge then there's no point 4betting 88 in the first place. [ QUOTE ] Also, when someone sees you 4-bet/fold often, you're gonna be toast if they make a note on you. [/ QUOTE ] once again, you've just made up this scenario in your mind and thought how people react. Obviously we can easily adjust to this, it's ridiculous how many people have shoved over my 4bet with A5s/random junk and i've snapped them off with KK, where as they'd be folding these hands everytime if they knew they had no fold equity.
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#37
11-18-2007, 04:34 PM
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Re: NL100, Party: Discussion about 4betting light preflop
[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, if your games are such that people just never adjust, this might be find. The problem is, that at 200nl, there are a ton of light 3-betters - which means that it won't take long before a lot of them look for ways to deal with people who adapt to them. [/ QUOTE ] i disagree (i'm an ipoker reg btw) [ QUOTE ] On top of that, when someone sees you 4-bet/fold, you're gonna be pretty screwed if they make a note on you. [/ QUOTE ] why? because they are going to bluffshove us? [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]
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#38
11-18-2007, 04:54 PM
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Re: NL100, Party: Discussion about 4betting light preflop
4 betting light is very effective at 1/2. Many players have just started 3 betting, they're doing it a lot. Still, when they 5 bet,they're range, from a lot of these players, is QQ+/AK, so you can 4 bet bluff fold a lot.
Basically, let's say you raise to 7 pf. Opponent makes it 24. If you raise to 66 (putting in 59 more), you're opponent only has to fold to 63% of the time. If he's any kind of player, he'll have AA-QQ/AK, less than 37% of the time. The only question, is how much do you like to 4 bet to in a 1/2 game. When I'd raise to 7, villain made it 24, I used to make it 72 (raising 65); now I'm more inclined to make it 66 (raising 59).
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#39
11-18-2007, 04:56 PM
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Re: NL100, Party: Discussion about 4betting light preflop
I make it even smaller. Like $50-52.
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#40
11-18-2007, 05:46 PM
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Re: NL100, Party: Discussion about 4betting light preflop
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] basically i'm going to 4-bet light with hands that have good equity vs his pushing range. [/ QUOTE ] ok so in the above example where we 4bet to 54 and he shoves, we have to put in 146 more to win 403(ill even let you have the blinds as dead money), meaning we need 36.2% equity to call a shove. [/ QUOTE ] arent we calling 146 to win 254?
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