Now I'm Even More Convinced... - Page 4

madnak · #31 11-04-2007, 10:12 PM

Anybody who reads much will see parallels all over the place. In some cases these parallels are clear coincidences, in other cases they aren't. But finding parallels isn't, by itself, very remarkable.

Splendour · #32 11-04-2007, 10:32 PM

You may be right. I just was thinking about tame_deuces challenge. So I looked up if it was right for me to test God and I discovered it might be wrong to test God. The funny thing was it mentioned Satan can appear as an angel of light. Then I went to look up Satan's names and Lucifer means "Son of the morning", "Light Bearer" or "Shining One". I guess that makes sense. Why would God desecrate his own altar? Besides the Jewish encyclopedia has Antiochus IV Epihanes as a real tyrant trying to denationalize the Jews prior to the birth of Jesus.
http://jewishencyclopedia.com/view.j...us%20Epiphanes

furyshade · #33 11-04-2007, 10:40 PM

lucifer is the "son of the morning", or more commonly the Morning Star, because he "fell from heaven". now lets look at the real Morning Star, venus. periodically due to the way we orbit the sun, we see venus moving away from the sun. the morning star falls away from the sun. this supports the solar religion to judeo-christian belief correlation

vhawk01 · #34 11-05-2007, 12:20 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Quote: Christianity is indeed the religion that has the least tolerance for other religion, plus that it encourages spread of belief - a horrible combination if you ask me.

But this is not unreasonable if you're God and its the truth.

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Very true. But what if you arent? More importantly how do you know?

tame_deuces · #35 11-05-2007, 05:00 AM

[ QUOTE ]
You may be right. I just was thinking about tame_deuces challenge. So I looked up if it was right for me to test God and I discovered it might be wrong to test God. The funny thing was it mentioned Satan can appear as an angel of light. Then I went to look up Satan's names and Lucifer means "Son of the morning", "Light Bearer" or "Shining One". I guess that makes sense. Why would God desecrate his own altar? Besides the Jewish encyclopedia has Antiochus IV Epihanes as a real tyrant trying to denationalize the Jews prior to the birth of Jesus.
http://jewishencyclopedia.com/view.j...us%20Epiphanes

[/ QUOTE ]

There isn't much in the bible to infer that Lucifer is Satan. This is now mostly believed to be an error confounded by medieval Christian teachings and various popular writings.

Splendour · #36 11-05-2007, 12:01 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You may be right. I just was thinking about tame_deuces challenge. So I looked up if it was right for me to test God and I discovered it might be wrong to test God. The funny thing was it mentioned Satan can appear as an angel of light. Then I went to look up Satan's names and Lucifer means "Son of the morning", "Light Bearer" or "Shining One". I guess that makes sense. Why would God desecrate his own altar? Besides the Jewish encyclopedia has Antiochus IV Epihanes as a real tyrant trying to denationalize the Jews prior to the birth of Jesus.
http://jewishencyclopedia.com/view.j...us%20Epiphanes

[/ QUOTE ]

There isn't much in the bible to infer that Lucifer is Satan. This is now mostly believed to be an error confounded by medieval Christian teachings and various popular writings.

[/ QUOTE ]

The term Lucifer was used as one of Satan's names 800 years before the New Testament used it and the New Testament is around 2000 years old. Both the OT and the NT predate medieval and modern times by hundreds sometimes thousands of years.

12How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer , son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

13For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:

14I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

15Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

16They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;

17That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners?

18All the kings of the nations, even all of them, lie in glory, every one in his own house.

19But thou art cast out of thy grave like an abominable branch, and as the raiment of those that are slain, thrust through with a sword, that go down to the stones of the pit; as a carcase trodden under feet.

20Thou shalt not be joined with them in burial, because thou hast destroyed thy land, and slain thy people: the seed of evildoers shall never be renowned.

21Prepare slaughter for his children for the iniquity of their fathers; that they do not rise, nor possess the land, nor fill the face of the world with cities.

22For I will rise up against them, saith the LORD of hosts, and cut off from Babylon the name, and remnant, and son, and nephew, saith the LORD.

23I will also make it a possession for the bittern, and pools of water: and I will sweep it with the besom of destruction, saith the LORD of hosts.

24The LORD of hosts hath sworn, saying, Surely as I have thought, so shall it come to pass; and as I have purposed, so shall it stand:

25That I will break the Assyrian in my land, and upon my mountains tread him under foot: then shall his yoke depart from off them, and his burden depart from off their shoulders.

26This is the purpose that is purposed upon the whole earth: and this is the hand that is stretched out upon all the nations.

27For the LORD of hosts hath purposed, and who shall disannul it? and his hand is stretched out, and who shall turn it back?

And in the New Testament see how Satan is described:

2 Corinthians 11:14 (King James Version)
King James Version (KJV)
Public Domain

14And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

tame_deuces · #37 11-05-2007, 03:38 PM

Yep, the King James retains some of the old errors in translation. The Isaiah passages most likely reflect on rulers of Babylon, but in medieval times they were read allegorically as the fall, leading to the current day misinterpretations.

You can research this and pick more modern translations of the bible like the English standard version if you wish, I'm not messing around here.

Splendour · #38 11-06-2007, 10:08 AM

[ QUOTE ]

Yep, the King James retains some of the old errors in translation. The Isaiah passages most likely reflect on rulers of Babylon, but in medieval times they were read allegorically as the fall, leading to the current day misinterpretations.

You can research this and pick more modern translations of the bible like the English standard version if you wish, I'm not messing around here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well this tiny detail if it is a "firm" detail and hasn't been obscured by history doesn't disrupt the fact of the historical event or that the event looks like part of a chain of events throughout history.

The way you arrived at this information just underscores that linear thinking is a dominant pattern in the way humans think, but it doesn't mean that God is held to these parameters, in fact, God can see the future so I would say his parameters are quite different from human ones.

Its like you're arguing a green couch isn't a green couch because a dot of bleach got on it and made a white patch. The couch is still a green couch but we are now overly focusing on the blemish of the spot instead of taking in the whole couch.

tame_deuces · #39 11-06-2007, 10:17 AM

So your stance is that that Judaists and Christians had it wrong for 3000 years, then someone made it right and 500 years later when they are corrected we are back to wrong again because god doesn't think linearly?

madnak · #40 11-06-2007, 10:48 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Its like you're arguing a green couch isn't a green couch because a dot of bleach got on it and made a white patch. The couch is still a green couch but we are now overly focusing on the blemish of the spot instead of taking in the whole couch.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's a green couch - with a white spot. I guess your God is a good God - with an evil spot?

See, you're claiming a perfect God, an absolute being. That means no blemishes. So yes, one "spot" on God or on God's word matters a lot. It means God is prone to error.