open % from CO and button

[thepizzlefosho]

i think one of the big things that you guys are missing in this discussion is understanding how much the short term variance of the hands you are dealt affects your overall image and thus how players are adjusting to you.

If I am running hot and picking up hands left and right I look very laggy, and thus even semi-observant villains will adjust and treat me as such (call down lighter and semi-bluff me less etc). However if I'm running awful, folding mostly preflop, and folding to most aggression postflop, then villains are going to note that. They will probably play me a little tighter preflop, but they'll attempt to run me over in BvB or stealing situations.

Even if most people have the stats available, only the guys playing 4+ tables are going to have trouble being aware of how a certain player is playing that night.

I think heisenberg has made some excellent posts in this thread, and I certainly think they would be worth expanding on for the articles he has said he was writing. However I think we should be careful to affirm the effectiveness of individual hand or situation based on long term statistics, when addressing our current image as well as the players involved plays a huge part in its effectivness.

For example earlier in the thread Oink provided some stats and immediately people questioned the width of his stealing range. He responded by qualifying the numbers based on situations, and then of course it makes more sense.

anway maybe this was just senseless rambling, but I find that keeping tabs on my own table image, how I'm running, and what types of hands I have SD really makes a significant difference in what types of hands I can successfully open with in steal situations.

[RudeboyOi]

i love being OOP

i also have a pretty wide sb 3b range
and a pretty wide bb defending range

acting first or last are both great spots in my book

[Heisenb3rg]

[ QUOTE ]
i love being OOP

i also have a pretty wide sb 3b range
and a pretty wide bb defending range

acting first or last are both great spots in my book

[/ QUOTE ]

clearly a level

[rzk]

[ QUOTE ]
am i the only one...

whos CO range is wider than their button range?

something like 42 from the CO 38 from the button

typically i respect button raises less than CO raises
im under the assumption my opponents think this same way

therefore my button range is slightly tighter than my CO

[/ QUOTE ]

normally, i'd think you were being serious. but since your other posts have been pretty reasonable i'll just assume you are kidding. but on the tiny offchance that you are actually serious - anybody who thinks that way is not just leaking money, but gushing it out of every hole.

i also don't quite get raising things like J4s, Q6o, etc. otb. i mean i'm fine with adding very very marginal hands as heis talks about in his post (though i disagree about the effect of it, at least it can't hurt you much), but i thought Q6o, J4s etc. are far from being very very marginal. am i wrong about this?

heis, no comment about the proof i gave?

[Oink]

[ QUOTE ]
but i thought Q6o, J4s etc. are far from being very very marginal. am i wrong about this?


[/ QUOTE ]

Based on what?

the problem about folding these hands is that you never figure out whether its -EV to play them

Oh, I muck Q6o more often than not

[danzasmack]

“If you have a 17% pfr, they probabily wont.
So if you have a 17% PFR and look down to see a speculative hand, you can be more inclined to 3-bet it vs the multitabler if they are tight.”

But then I won’t have a 17% pfr…

If you can use your own statistics deceptively then my opponent shouldn’t be using my statistics at all.

“If they are so loose spazzy that you will make a huge profit everytime you hit a hand, then you can loosen up again... Just make sure you are confident enough to adjust your postflop strategy to exploit it.”

Like this is all well and good and what not in theory but it doesn’t really make sense. You’re talking about making sudden changes on your hand ranges in a 6 handed game. Creating a false image for myself to capitalize on. A lot of this is accomplished by the fact that when a hand is done, the person will evaluate their hand vs. your pf (if easy to do, like “omg he had AT and beat my AQ”) or on the flop (pretty easy to do).

It’s like saying “people think I’m a fish” but you are confident that you are not.

“However, if your opponents are very loose and spazzy postflop, muck the hand. You are going to be played back at too much to show a profit with this hand”

In position why wouldn’t I play this hand?

[sethypooh21]

Danza,

Against a SD bound, bluffy/aggro villain, a lot of "standard" steal raises become borderline to unplayable, imo. Something like 87o is stealable, but against this guy, who'll get all spazzy with Q2o I have a hard time seeing it as profitable, since you won't make a big enough hand as frequently as you need to.

[danzasmack]

if you think of it from the other guys POV you'll see you're probably doing him a favor.

[frenchpignouf]

The bryce made a nice video about stealing the blinds. He said with very good conditions, you can steal with any 2 on the button.

I'm break even with Q9o on the button (I raise it 100% of the time) the equity of Q6o is just 5% lower than Q9o against top 60%. So against a fish or a nit, Q6o is prolly profitable.

[sethypooh21]

[ QUOTE ]
if you think of it from the other guys POV you'll see you're probably doing him a favor.

[/ QUOTE ]

I dunno, I think that against this guy, you don't actually have to steal with 87o for him to think "this guy is stealing with 87o" and play accordingly. He's going to spew at you because that's who he is, voluntarily playing a too-wide range just makes his spewery closer to correct.