4-way 3b pot with QQ, oy

[sh58]

wow, pretty lol spot.

there is so much money in the middle you pretty much have to shove and hope you have the best hand and it holds up everynow and again. (you will get stacked alot!!)

UTG is pretty much the only hand that may have had you beat PF, so hope for the best, at least you have an overpair

[ajmargarine]

Ya, bet, got called in two places. Shortie had 99. BTN had AhJx and spiked a river ace so lost both main and side pots.

[sh58]

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Shoving here is silly.

At the very least he will be looked up by TT w a heart. AK with a either an Ah or Kh will call. Any flush or set will obv call.

What the heck do you expect him to see when someone call his shove? A9 w no heart?

You have to check here. This doesn't mean you have to give up on the pot -- although that is advisable -- but you'll need to see the action behind you and base your next move on that.

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the main point is that the pot is massive, so you don't have to win it that often for it to be profitable.

[carrotsnake]

thats not the main point at all :/

[FGators]

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I love the whole "shove now and embrace the variance" like the people that voted for that option know that they are running into a hand that has them crushed and are just willing to go that route because they have an overpair.

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Well, we have roughly a PSB left. There's only shove or check. We have an overpair and the board is low and drawy, so we will either taken the pot down with a bet (which is great) or we're SA/WB when called. Getting almost 2 to 1 if called, it seems like a pretty easy shove, despite being high variance. It's all really tied to preflop -- when you have overpair on the flop with a PSB left after 3betting preflop, you pretty much can't go wrong shoving the flop.

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You can save yourself a "PSB" if the action goes bet, push,etc. and they tell you an overpair isn't any good.

Sometimes it will go push,fold back to you and then you can call because you are likely ahead of his range.

I think shoving gets called by sets, flopped flushes and the ace of hearts, or JhJx which we aren't that much ahead of.

Frankly I think our hand sucks.

[carrotsnake]

<3, either your good, or I suck!

[FGators]

Here's what we do know:

The 3 callers are not folding pocket pairs when you 3 bet preflop because A) everybody set mines at $1/2 no matter how big of their stack it is. B) the last two aren't folding suited connectors because they feel they have odds with UTG in C) UTG likely could have Aces or Kings and felt that he would jam low flops and didn't worry about the other guys calling for whatever reason be it he doesn't feel the need to protect his hand or thought it would be too defined if he jammed or raised some amount or he thought the other two would fold because they didn't want to pay to see the flop.

So we have to dodge a slowplayed AA/KK from UTG as long as the Ace of hearts if he has something like Ahx as well as hands like KQhearts

From the last two we have to dodge the three pocket pairs and all combinations of suited hearts, which they aren't laying down to that price, as well as suited broadways which they aren't folding.

We also have to dodge outs from 8h8x, which you would think would fold fearing we have a big pair with a heart, but this is $1/2 by the way...as well as obviously 10h10x and JhJx, which isn't folding because well, this is $1/2 by the way.

So I guess we can blindly shove, pray we get called by black tens or black jacks which is the best scenario ever obviously and pretty much "embrace the variance" by everything else. And then, of course, are those spots where there is no embracing, we are dead already.

[Nick Royale]

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The 3 callers are not folding pocket pairs when you 3 bet preflop because A) everybody set mines at $1/2 no matter how big of their stack it is. B) the last two aren't folding suited connectors because they feel they have odds with UTG in C) UTG likely could have Aces or Kings and felt that he would jam low flops and didn't worry about the other guys calling for whatever reason be it he doesn't feel the need to protect his hand or thought it would be too defined if he jammed or raised some amount or he thought the other two would fold because they didn't want to pay to see the flop.

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Yeah he might have AA/KK, or any other combo of lower PPs, AK/AQ etc.


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From the last two we have to dodge the three pocket pairs and all combinations of suited hearts, which they aren't laying down to that price, as well as suited broadways which they aren't folding.

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You realize 80% of the PPs TT and below did not flop a set? And that like 85%+ of the low SCs is in another suit than hearts?


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We also have to dodge outs from 8h8x, which you would think would fold fearing we have a big pair with a heart, but this is $1/2 by the way...as well as obviously 10h10x and JhJx, which isn't folding because well, this is $1/2 by the way.


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We don't really care too much about 8h8x calling, and if Ahx also comes along we'd love 8h8x calling.


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So I guess we can blindly shove, pray we get called by black tens or black jacks which is the best scenario ever obviously and pretty much "embrace the variance" by everything else. And then, of course, are those spots where there is no embracing, we are dead already.

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I don't think you're capable of estimating we have the best hand here.

[FGators]

Nick,

You are treating this hand like I'm insta-check mucking. That is far far from what I'm doing. I'm not ruling out folding this flop but just shoving it all in the middle to hopefully get called by JJ or the ace of hearts is incredibly dumb.

Check, see what develops (you most certainly will know you are beat as no hand is just calling this flop unless the guy has the nuts you'd think) and go with your read from there.


I mean if you check then UTG fires and either of the other two are all in I think thats a nicer scenario than shoving and seeing a guy call, am I not right?

[sholler]

tank for a while then push to represent the straight flush or quads