NLHE - Requesting a Chip Count

[mikech]

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I'm not sure what you meant by your edit, but the first part is perhaps the stupidest reason ever for letting cash play. It's a pain in the butt to use chips?

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it would be a stupid reason if that was what i actually wrote. to aid you in reading comprehension, i've highlighted your error in bold. i said, "it's a pain to buy (and later cash out) tens of thousands of dollars worth of chips."

as RR noted (which i referred to in that edit, and which somehow confused you), nobody wants to fill out CTRs, ok? the players much less so than the room personnel. if cash were not allowed to play, many bigger games might not even run.

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I have never seen or been offered an arguement that showed me why cash on the table is in any way good.

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it could be the difference between a game existing or not, would that be a good enough reason?

[danxd]

You don't have to say anything. The dealer can estimate. But if you want to be silent, be silent. One of the reasons a person asks this question is to get a tell. If you answer fast, he may think you are anxious for a call. If you answer slow, he may think you don't want a call. If you answer loudly, you show confidence. Quietly, and you're unsure. So stay SILENT.

[Ghazban]

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You don't have to say anything. The dealer can estimate. But if you want to be silent, be silent. One of the reasons a person asks this question is to get a tell. If you answer fast, he may think you are anxious for a call. If you answer slow, he may think you don't want a call. If you answer loudly, you show confidence. Quietly, and you're unsure. So stay SILENT.

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Don't do this unless you want everybody to hate you and the game to be serious and tighter than a nun's arse.

[youtalkfunny]

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now, i'm possibly about to make a wager upwards of 20k here, with a potential 60k+ pot hanging in the balance, and you're saying i have no right to a count? uh huh.

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I guess I should stipulate that I've never seen a $60k pot in a cash game--and neither has 99% of the readers of this forum. Those 99% think that they have the right to make an opponent needlessly jump through hoops. I've seen it a million times:

A: How much do you have?

B: (doesn't say a word, motions towards his stack: two stacks of red, about seven white chips, and what is obviously a single $100 bill.)

A: How much is that?

B: (annoyed) Three-oh-something.

Player A insists that he's "entitled" to a count.

Of course, Player A knows all that he needs to know about B's stack. At this point, A is on a power trip. He loves the fact that Player B has to do what he (Player A) tells him to do. The only reason he makes B count out the white chips, is that this is the only time in his miserable existence that he can snap his fingers, and have others jump to his tune.

THAT is why I'm opposed to "You have to count all your chips for me if I say so. For this one moment in time, I get to boss you around, and there's no way I'm passing up that opportunity!"

Back to the $60k scenario: I've dealt plenty of hands with pots in the range between $10k to $25k, and at no time did any player insist on a to-the-penny count of an opponent's stack. The rough estimate was sufficient for the purposes of all involved--as well as sufficiently accurate--in every case.

I think a lot of posters don't realize that the penny-ante nonsense you see in $1-2 games (such as deliberately acting out of turn to get somebody to check a hand they were going to bet, or miscalling a hand at showdown to get an opponent to muck, or hiding big chips behind small chips) just plain doesn't happen in games with $60k pots. You try this silliness at that level, and nobody will play with you. It's not like you can shrug and go play somewhere else--there aren't that many games going at those stakes.

If a player in such a game says he has "about $30k", I'll lay odds that estimate is within $3k. Please don't pretend that $3k is significant in this context. If you bet $30k, and he goes all-in for $3k more, is there ever a time you won't pay him off? Of course not. You'd throw that $3k away like it was used toilet paper, because in the context of that hand, $3k is nothing.

[RR]

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I guess I should stipulate that I've never seen a $60k pot in a cash game--and neither has 99% of the readers of this forum. Those 99% think that they have the right to make an opponent needlessly jump through hoops. I've seen it a million times:

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I have been around games that often had pots in the low six figures and everything youtalkfunny has said in this thread is correct.

[psandman]

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I guess I should stipulate that I've never seen a $60k pot in a cash game--and neither has 99% of the readers of this forum.

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I have pushed a $50k+ pot and the players didn't ask for a count not even an estimate. And I suspect that every player in that game had a pretty good idea about every other players stack size.

But in my room you can ask for and get a count and the abuse you are talking about just doesn't happen. And as far as your scenario where the player asks for an actual count I suspect they are more concerned with whether the stacks are actually $100 stacks than the exact number of white chips. (At least once a week I find myself breaking down a players stack and finding its not 20 chips. And the difference between the $1-$2 NL game and the games with $60K pots. -- is that $20 is more significant to most $1-$2 players than $5K is to the players in those big games.

[Ray Zee]

okay, its customary for a player to ask and get an answer of aproximate amount. that should be close enough.

all chips larger than the standard must be in view. or when bet, the floor may or may not disallow the bet of them if they were hidden depending on how hard the player complains.

as far as cash its always been okay to just do an estimate. if the pot is getting large and you want a better count most players will count it for you or let the dealer do it.

it is considered ball busting to do it if you arent in a special situation in a big pot.

each casino will rule differently. but in general you are entitled to know what your opponent has.

as far as cash, it is a nessesity to use it as the casino does not protect your chips or reimburse you if something happens, like they get stolen. so in big no limit games players want cash to be able to take it with them when they eat or walk. many times money/chips goes missing and the casino says it is your own responsibility.
so have large bills or chips that go with you or take your chances.

[bema03]

I've only played 1/2NL and 2/5NL, and whenever anyone asks me how much I have left, I usually just spread my arms out or put them by my sides so the person can clearly see my well-organized stack of chips. If it's unclear exactly how many stacks of chips I have, I'll say something like "About 650" or "around 420" or whatever. No one has followed that up with the more-douchey, "How much is that exactly? Count it out for me, I'm entitled to it."

[budblown]

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You don't have to say anything. The dealer can estimate. But if you want to be silent, be silent. One of the reasons a person asks this question is to get a tell. If you answer fast, he may think you are anxious for a call. If you answer slow, he may think you don't want a call. If you answer loudly, you show confidence. Quietly, and you're unsure. So stay SILENT.

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Don't do this unless you want everybody to hate you and the game to be serious and tighter than a nun's arse.

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You sir are an idiot and everyone is now dumber for reading this.

[Ghazban]

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You don't have to say anything. The dealer can estimate. But if you want to be silent, be silent. One of the reasons a person asks this question is to get a tell. If you answer fast, he may think you are anxious for a call. If you answer slow, he may think you don't want a call. If you answer loudly, you show confidence. Quietly, and you're unsure. So stay SILENT.

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Don't do this unless you want everybody to hate you and the game to be serious and tighter than a nun's arse.

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You sir are an idiot and everyone is now dumber for reading this.

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You talk like somebody who has never actually played a live casino no-limit cash game of reasonable size.