3bet pot with TT vs LAG

[philipsaurus]

i wish people folded TT to me on this board when i 3ball pre and cbet in a blind steal situation.

ps. i usually flat call pf but thats my style. 4bet isnt bad either imo.

[dragonystic]

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can anyone explain what good 4-betting does here to me, plz?

the way i see it, if hero 4-bets, a better hand is going to call, and a worse hand will fold. Thus he is making all the right decisions. Isnt poker all about getting your opponents to make mistakes?

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you win $100 everytime he folds in this spot to a 4bet preflop. so even if he correctly folds the worse hands and calls with betters/coinflips, it still might be the best play. (plus metagame value against a lag)

[Floyd13]

This kind of hand is 100% read based. Against a solid opponent (nit/weak to average TAG) this is an easy fold PF. Against a lag this is an easy call. Luckily most people fall into these categories, because this hand is a nightmare to play against a very good TAG. This type of player leaves just enough doubt to make all our options bad. Also, shoving PF against the LAG is +EV, but waiting until the flop is +++EV.

[Nightfall123]

exactly, we win $100 everytime he folds, and also it widens our 4-bet range so that he cant just put us on AA,KK,QQ and AK everytime we 4-bet, and dragon's metagame point is huge here. If we just flat call everytime with marginal hands to a 26/23's 3-bet we're gonna get run over. Tens are definetly ahead of his 3-betting range so why not try and take it now with a 4 bet?

[Nightfall123]

[ QUOTE ]
This kind of hand is 100% read based. Against a solid opponent (nit/weak to average TAG) this is an easy fold PF. Against a lag this is an easy call. Luckily most people fall into these categories, because this hand is a nightmare to play against a very good TAG. This type of player leaves just enough doubt to make all our options bad. Also, shoving PF against the LAG is +EV, but waiting until the flop is +++EV.

[/ QUOTE ]

ummm isnt this backwards? vs a lag his 3-betting range is wider and therefore its harder to play a mid PP against it? Vs a nit/tag we can easily define their range and figure out pretty quickly post flop if we're behind/ahead.

[Nightfall123]

but the point about waiting until the flop being more +ev i agree with, it just requires alot better hand reading obviously.

[pineapple888]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This kind of hand is 100% read based. Against a solid opponent (nit/weak to average TAG) this is an easy fold PF. Against a lag this is an easy call. Luckily most people fall into these categories, because this hand is a nightmare to play against a very good TAG. This type of player leaves just enough doubt to make all our options bad. Also, shoving PF against the LAG is +EV, but waiting until the flop is +++EV.

[/ QUOTE ]

ummm isnt this backwards? vs a lag his 3-betting range is wider and therefore its harder to play a mid PP against it? Vs a nit/tag we can easily define their range and figure out pretty quickly post flop if we're behind/ahead.

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Vs. a Nitty TAG we are folding preflop. Vs. a LAG you are never folding preflop or to this CB. Vs an "Eagle" u are f'd.

[centgas]

Obviously we cannot just say that because we are ahead of his range we should raise, because he is more likely to call/raise with better hands and commit less money with poorer hands. This is one thing I really need to start using my math brain in instead of just mumbling to myself during games.

Can anyone come up with any numbers of solutions as to how far ahead of his range we have to be, or how often he has to fold to make this profitable? Or is this some long drawn out process I have to use PokerStove/equations for?

As for the hand. I usually let his figures decide between calling the 3b or 4bettin:

If he is very aggro on the flop, call and let him committ some more. If you arent confident he will bet out, then 4bet. Also if OOP more likely to 4b. How loose he is also comes in, because we are more likely to get a fold out of something 3betting loosely, and so should 4b unless we have AA/KK.

It should also be confidered how often we 4bet AK/AA/KK. If you are 4betting AK every time, then you have to start throwing some other hands in there or you will become more predictable.

If anyone wants to help with the first bit of this post or critisise the rest then please do because I am nackured.

[Nightfall123]

ummm...vs a nitty tag dont we have correct odds to call for set value? And also lol about the eagle thing

[pineapple888]

[ QUOTE ]
ummm...vs a nitty tag dont we have correct odds to call for set value? And also lol about the eagle thing

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No, and why LOL?