choose my action, deep multiway

[Parlay Slow]

Shove. That's probably the single best card in the deck.

If I'm in his seat, then I don't give you credit for AA or KK cuz of the flop check. I also doubt you'd VB K6, 63, or 33 so aggressively. A million big draws that you could have had whiffed, so I guess you got A6 or nothing. So I'd 100% look you up pretty light here.

[blumpkin]

interesting hand tx

i love raising the turn, and i think it's much better than calling. because you have a couple non-nut draws, you'd much rather be heads up - vs both of them its possible to be dead to clubs or your gutter! someone with a lone non-nut (or even nut) heart draw or wrap cannot profitably call that raise. the only hands that can really call are KKK, AK with K-high hearts, or a set of 3s with the baby wrap...

nhnh if u raised it

[TheRempel]

Unless he is the type to always fold to a shove without a very strong hand no matter what, I think you should shove. A shove is incredibly confusing paired with your flop check and turn raise, because it definitely looks like you just hit a big draw on the turn. I get called in a lot of similar spots by pretty random hands that are trying to pick off my bluff.

[RoundTower]

I prefer raising the full pot on the turn. This will leave about $3750 in the pot with only 1700 behind and should make the river easier to play whether you hit or not.

As played I think shove, but it is kind of read based.

[Buzz]

[ QUOTE ]
I raised the turn to $1000. The BB called and MP folded, which surprised me b/c MP rarely puts money in on the flop or turn and then folds to a medium sized raise.

[/ QUOTE ]Hi again Tex - That's the down side of raising too much. If one of your opponents has a weakish draw, I believe you do best by somehow getting both of them to match the fresh money you put into the pot on the turn.

But I don't know how to do that optimally. Shoving, in my humble opinion, is probably too much. (And evidently $1000 was as well). Since he just called $300, I think he’ll call another $300. But the danger of betting only $300, as I see it, is BB may re-raise the pot, intentionally (and perhaps stupidly) trying to knock out MP.

I wonder how $500 would work. (Guess we’ll never know).
[ QUOTE ]
My biggest concern was what hand my line looked like.

[/ QUOTE ]It would look to me like you were either (1) being coy for one round, hoping to confuse, with a set of aces plus the nut flush draw (a monster), (2) intentionally overbetting your hand hoping to steal, or (3) semi-bluffing (perhaps with a nut heart draw).[ QUOTE ]
Preflop can be AAxx here for me a lot, especially against a deep limp re-raise when I have the button, and when I check behind on the flop I dont know how most opponents view that, but i'd only check a set on this flop a small % of the time.

[/ QUOTE ]That would be hard for an opponent to know. If you made the bet a thousand bucks on the turn against me after checking the flop, I'd be very wary of a monster.
[ QUOTE ]
So what hand does my line look like,

[/ QUOTE ]It looks to me like (1) a possible monster, (2) maybe a pair with a flush draw, or (3) the nut flush draw. Very scary. But I'm still calling with AKYZ in case you have (2) or (3).
[ QUOTE ]
(fwiw I purposely raised an amount on the turn that would leave me the ability to make him call getting either less than 2.5/1 or a much better price if it was checked to me on the river)

[/ QUOTE ]Very interesting and helpful to me. Thanks for the insight.

[ QUOTE ]
River 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

I felt like this was a great card for me...

[/ QUOTE ]Yes.
[ QUOTE ]
BB checks, how much do you bet here?

[/ QUOTE ]As much as I think BB will call. I think it’s highly opponent dependent. I’m not at all sure what works best coming from you with this BB.
[ QUOTE ]
Fwiw, I was debating whether or not a river shove would look like a bluff

[/ QUOTE ]Might. I wouldn’t think you necessarily exactly had a pure bluff, but I’d consider the possibility you had missed your heart draw and didn’t have much, maybe just two pairs (aces and sixes). Thus I’d be more or less stuck calling with AKYZ (but hating the call, fearing aces full). It’s very hard to read you for sixes full.
[ QUOTE ]
I also was considering what the weakest hand he calls with if the pot was laying him 3-1.

[/ QUOTE ]Highly opponent dependent, I’d guess.
[ QUOTE ]
If it helps,.....if the BB doesn't understand equities he probably thinks i'm wreckless and willing to make a move.

[/ QUOTE ]In that case, seems like pushing is best.

Buzz

[TheRempel]

[ QUOTE ]

It would look to me like you were either (1) being coy for one round, hoping to confuse, with a set of aces plus the nut flush draw (a monster)


[/ QUOTE ]

No good player is ever taking that line on that board.

[Buzz]

[ QUOTE ]
No good player is ever taking that line on that board.

[/ QUOTE ]The Rempel - Thanks for the reply.

What I'm wondering is why not?

It isn't my intention to argue with you. You know too much more about the game than I do for me to argue with you about this, but I'm curious.

Don't good players mix up their play somewhat? A set of aces plus the nut heart draw would be a monster after this flop. Doesn't anybody ever slow play a monster for one round, at least to mix up their play?

Buzz

[RoundTower]

I could definitely see someone checking here with AA and the nut hearts: the problem is that it is rather difficult to have that hand since the A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] is on the board.

[TheRempel]

Because checking the flop doesn't really gain anything. You lose value from hands that may have called the flop with small wraps and you become much less likely to stack a worse flush because you keep the pot small. Slowplaying a drawy board in omaha because you have a made hand + a strong draw is generally the worst line except against ubernits and they will often assume you have the hand you have anyway.

[TheRempel]

As for 'mixing up my play' I save that for spots that are very marginal either way, their hands are very obvious, or they are overaggressive once they have established aggression on a previous street, ie an opponent that always leads the NFD into a preflop raiser and continues to bet the turn without improvement but always checkraises the flop with sets.