A second dbitel vid - Page 4

rgaj052 · #31 08-13-2007, 05:46 PM

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Havent watched this video yet, but I enjoyed your first video. You really should consider using Table/Card Mod's for the sake of visibilty. I find it much easier on my eyes when multi-tabling. It would also be easier for the video viewers to see the HUD stats etc. If you want some help sorting out my table/card mod's just send me a PM.

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I agree. You should at least use the "Midnight" background and 4-colors deck.

Great vid by the way!

Dan Bitel · #32 08-13-2007, 07:41 PM

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What is your username on that other site you talk about? In which section will you post?

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dbitel, and mainly in the Ring Game Hand Analysis section

Dan Bitel · #33 08-13-2007, 07:42 PM

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Havent watched this video yet, but I enjoyed your first video. You really should consider using Table/Card Mod's for the sake of visibilty. I find it much easier on my eyes when multi-tabling. It would also be easier for the video viewers to see the HUD stats etc. If you want some help sorting out my table/card mod's just send me a PM.

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thanks for the offer...but I've been playing with this backround/avatars/cards on FT for over 2 years now, so I'm just really used to them. Maybe for my vids I''ll use some mods if thats what you guys think are easier

Dan Bitel · #34 08-13-2007, 07:53 PM

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Good vid.

About your A2s discussion. Raising is not that bad.

First, we usually have 47.5% equity against a lone bigger ace. With dead money in the pot its a certain coinflip. If we fold A8 or AT sometimes its already hugely EV+.

Second, if he pushes, and I doubt he pushes with with less than AK, we know our equity and have an easy fold. Of course I am not advocating a raise for information, but its a nice bonus.

Third, we if he flats we usually get to see a free card. This is going to be about the same price as calling the turn anyways.

Fourth, most importantly. Its much easier to stack someone when the flush comes if we raised the flop rather than flat called it.

Now critique [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

I dont understand why you are folding KQ on T9x board to a ss c/r. I snap call, you have 40% equity against most of his range and get almost 2 to 1.

Calling fishies minraise from the SB with 89s.. Yuck [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] You are also probably dominated [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

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ty for the critique man. Posts like this are why I like to post vids, as every1 can learn something.

OK, I'll try to adress a few of your points. Firstly, with the KQ hand, I think you're right and prob a call would be good.

As for the A2s hand, you make some good points, but I still think you're wrong [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

I don't deny that raising the flop with A2s is certainly +EV, my point is though that I think calling is MORE +EV.

OK, I think we really have NO FEQ vs better hands. I don't expect an unknown to fold to a single raise on the flop, and given that you've stated your plan is to check on the turn (as it rightly should be) you're never really going to get him to fold his A8 or w/e.

I'm not sure that if he pushes we're folding, but if he does and we do fold, thats not a bonus...thats a HUGE loss. We had possibly 12 outs, certainly 9, and we let all that equity go by raising the flop. You say its a bonus we found out we were beat...I say its a loss we lost out on 35%+ pot equity needlessly.

You're right that if he flats we see the turn and river for the same price, but the difference is that we lose out on value, as if we bet the turn when checked to, or call his turn lead, his hand range is far wider (ie has more hands we beat in it) than if we raise flop and we see the river that way.

Your last point is that its easier to stack some1 if we raise. I think this is quite true. Although you also have to add in the fact we've made him more scared of our hand in general. But IMO, that extra we may or may not make when we hit, does not make up for the extra money we have to put in on the flop and all the other factors I've just talked about above

Dan Bitel · #35 08-13-2007, 07:56 PM

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I think this video - the playing style - is absolute gold for uNL/SSNL players for a whole bunch of reasons.

1. I think it shows that the cliche of aggression at all costs (postflop) is not always correct. In fact, at low stakes games a more circumspect postflop game is often best. This is what I would call a "value" approach to the game rather than an "aggro" approach (although of course these are not mutually exclusive approaches by any means). This is simply to say that the majority of our profits at these games comes from value plays with the best hand and not aggro plays seeking FE in marginal spots.

2. It shows the value of folding and/or getting away from hands early. I noticed that Dan didn't really get himself in any nasty spots and I think this is because he is not rashly putting money in the middle such that subsequent bets/raises cause him to consider whether he's committed with shaky equity. Another example of this is I don't think he played back at aggression in the whole video. Again, spots where villain is betting, we have a marginal hand and meh equity...fold! Simple stuff.

3. I almost got the horn when Dan folded the AJo in the SB to the Btn open...I thought I was the only nit who did this! Fantastic. Of course, I'm sure hero is 3b it some (even a lot?) of the time, but IMO the video shows that 3b it always isn't necessary.

4. Finally, simplicity. I notice this watching CR videos too...it's not about constant light 3b'ing or pulling moves or pushing flops looking for FE or fancy c/r or any of that crap. Mostly, as Townsend always says, it's about good solid poker. Betting for value, folding when you think you are behind/have poor equity, not limping too often, cbetting judiciously etc. The reason so many of us donks get in trouble in hands is because we too often lose sight of this simplicity.

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ty very much chomp [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

You really have hit the nail on the head there. Simple poker really does get the money. I don't really want to add too much to what you've wrote, b/c you've said it all perfectly

inverted · #36 08-13-2007, 09:58 PM

Dbitel, when you talked about that A2 hand I realised it was alot like a hand I played yesterday and posted in the full ring forums. The answer to how to play it there was raise. I'm just wondering what you think of this

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.04 BB (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

saw flop|saw showdown

MP3 ($3.10)
CO ($5.23)
Button ($4.60)
SB ($4)
Hero ($4.60)
UTG ($4.32)
UTG+1 ($7.51)
MP1 ($1.13)
MP2 ($4.98)

Preflop: Hero is BB with K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
7 folds, SB completes, Hero raises to $0.12, SB calls $0.10.

Flop: ($0.28) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets $0.16, Hero calls $0.16.

Turn: ($0.60) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets $0.48, Hero calls $0.48.

River: ($1.56) K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB calls $3.98 (All-In), Hero folds.

Final Pot: $5.54

Results in white below: 
SB doesn't show.
Outcome: SB wins $5.54. 

My reason for not raising was as follows, firstly on the flop I'm already getting odds to hit my flush if I am behind. I'm also quite happy for a pair to think that I am drawing and continue betting. The only hands that might fold to my raise I am already ahead of and I would prefer to try to extract more value from them on the turn or river. Sure a pair of aces might call and I could try to extract more from that hand with a flop raise, and I guess this is a good idea if I could put him on Ax especially considering that if another diamond comes I wont be able to get any more value from that hand. So really I think I had no FE vs the hands I was ahead of and I believed that if I did hit my diamond I was going to be able to take their stack anyway if they had flopped a flush/set. I also have a whole heap of showdown equity and don't want to be pushed off the hand by a big reraise.

Cheers (:

inverted · #37 08-13-2007, 10:00 PM

oh btw I raised small 3BB because I'm very happy to play a pot with this person in position with a pretty good hand. I've started raising different amounts based on position.

Btw thanks for the video [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

JROK777 · #38 08-15-2007, 04:22 AM

This video was really great. Your thoughts on how to play different combo draws was golden. I subscribe to CardRunners and this video is one of the best I have ever seen. You would make a great coach. I'll PM to find out how much this is going to cost me. McSNL, don't be a fool and not watch this video!