Turning Pro: My Dilemma

[D.L.M.]

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Would you suggest having a larger "playing bankroll" on top of your money set aside for expenses. Specifically, would you suggest a 40 buy-in bankroll on top of your 6 months of expenses?


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I think 6-months plus roll is the bare minimum. If you can do more (like Prodigy above) then I think it's absolutely worthwhile.

As far as your roll as a pro, I think it really depends how comfortable you are at your current level and what your long term plans are. ie: if you're playing $100NL or $200NL and making a decent enough earn that you're okay staying at that level for a while then you don't need much more than a normal roll. But if you have ambitions of moving up then a deeper roll is a very good thing.

When you're playing for a living, it can be very difficult to grow your roll because you're withdrawing regularly. Unless you run really good, hit a big payday (MTT) or are really disciplined financially (you don't start spending all that poker money on going out, clothes, women, etc) your roll is not going to grow like it does when you're working a "real" job and playing poker part-time.

There's good money to be made at stakes like $100NL and $200NL but it's not enough to live REALLY well (unless you're still living in your parents basement) and grow your roll/savings like crazy too.

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I agree with most of this cept one thing. I make over $100 hrly at 200nl games. and thats pretty good living for anyone basement or no........plz dont ban me =)

[Albert Moulton]

The older you get, the harder it is to go to school.

Sure, plenty of adult education programs let older people get degrees, but they take a long time and they're a pain in the rear.

If you think you'd like a degree of any kind that you don't already have, then I'd do whatever it takes to finish school while your still in your 20s. After that, especially once you get a wife and kids, it's really hard to go back.

[vizer02]

Thanks for all of the great replies to this thread. I have been weighing my options for a few weeks now...even took 4 days off this week just to play poker full time to see if I could grind okay so many days in a row. I'm glad I decided to post my questions on here, as the responses have been very thought-provoking. I have the ~6-months worth of living expenses saved up already like CMAR recommended, but it's currently in stocks and my IRA, so I think maybe the best option for me is to build my BR up until December or so and reevaluate my situation then. Most of the comments have me leaning towards not going pro, even though I've already made my month's salary playing 58 hrs this month, adding up to $60/hr w/rakeback, which is not quite 3 times what I'm currently making per hour. This is just one freaking ballsy decision to make.

[TheProdigy]

You're only young once......

[NFuego20]

1.) Do you play poker as your main source of income

Yes

2.) If yes, what level do you play

200 NL, 4 tables at a time, 25 hours a week

3.) Do you have money set aside as a cushion in case something goes wrong?

Absolutely. I was told by a friend who is professional to have 6 months of living expenses and 40 buy ins available before trying. I probably had twice this amount when I went pro. I like to keep most of my roll in investments, so although it's there if I need it, I prefer to not touch the investments unless I have to.

4.) Do you attend college full-time?

No, I'm 28 and a certified public accountant. I spent 4 years in public accounting working for Big 4 firms before walking away.

5.) If yes, do you find that poker is conflicting with your study habits and grades?

N/A

6.) Is poker still fun for you?

Yes, but there are plenty times when I do have to force myself to play when I'd rather just relax.

7.) If you were in my shoes, what would you do?

If I'm in your shoes, which I pretty much was 8 months ago, I'd be sure first of all to make sure you have a solid contingency plan in place before making this decision. If online poker disappeared next week, what would you do? When I left my firm I actually stayed for 3 months to help close up all loose ends and transfer knowledge, when I would've only had to do the standard two weeks. As a result I still have a great relationship with my former employers, and they're mostly rooting for me instead of cursing me. The job security is there in that I could probably return any time I wanted to. If there's any way you can swing something like this, it's well worth the time to put in the extra work at the end and maintain good relationships with your peers.

Are you married or engaged, or have a serious girlfriend? That's another consideration. In my case I'm married and my wife was wrapping up college when I made this decision. Her support has made this an easy transition. However, if several of my friends had tried this their fiances/wives might have killed them. In my case I was working a lot of hours and traveling on my job a lot, and my wife really enjoys having me home now. For the past 8 months she wasn't earning any money for the household, but she just got a teaching job herself now and that takes a lot of stress off of me.

As part of my contingency plan, in addition to making sure I could go back to my job if I needed to, I also spent more than a month in Vegas playing live every day, just to see if I could make an adequate amount of money in the live games. Give yourself as many options as you can and when the time is right, you can make your decisions.

Reading through a lot of the responses, there is a lot of good advice in this thread. I will say that I probably don't make quite as much money any more as I did as a CPA, but I'm on pace to make it close. Either way this decision has been well worth it, as the quality of life is just that much better. I love being able to do what I want when I want to. I'm more active and have time to play in a lot of rec sports leagues and am probably healthier as a result.

Whatever you decide to do, best of luck to you and feel free to PM me if you have any specific questions.

[RiverMustelid]

Here's my two pence worth.

I am currently pro in the sense that I don't do anything else and play 8 200NL tables.

The biggest downsides for me have been:
-extreme variance based swings impact my moods
-family and girlfriend have difficulty understanding the route I have taken
-I don't believe it is a long term career option - >5 years+. Therefore I am sacrificing my career development elsewhere.

However, on balance it has still been a positive thing for me.
- I have skills that I can use to get back into the job market (MBA, Accounting), so it is more of a career break than total leave. I decided although I was doing well in my career working as a management consultant and business advisor to NASDAQ equivalent UK companies, I didn't want to move much higher up the greasy pole. This meant the career break wasn't as important.
- I am ruthless about working a set number of hours (5 per day). Ie. I have a job, but it is much better than the 60+ hours per week I used to do. I make sure I use the extra time for positive lifestyle choices e.g. swimming. As a 34 year old I think these health benefits are pretty important.
I also cook for my girlfriend etc, which gains me some love [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
- I love playing. I used to play chess as a kid, and got addicted to football manager type games. Basically I'm being paid for something I love doing.
-I use the extra time to pursue some other life goals. I have been doing a little writing, and taking pleasure from that.
=I have been to live in Australia for 6 months, and will spend next year 6 months in South America, 6 in India. This fits with my girlfriends aspiration to travel.

In short, I guess I'm saying that it can be really hard, and definitely isn't for everyone. But combined with a plan, it may work for you.

Good luck with your choice.

[Kos13]

Pros, where do you guys live? Did you move where housing/apartment prices are low, or did you stay near family/friends? Any recommendations on a certain part of the country (or outside of the U.S. I guess)?

[mack848]

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Pros, where do you guys live? Did you move where housing/apartment prices are low, or did you stay near family/friends? Any recommendations on a certain part of the country (or outside of the U.S. I guess)?

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I don't see why this really matters, other than if you move to a tax free location (like the UK where I am). People don't turn pro unless they are earning more than in a normal job, so there is no more need to have low living expenses than before going pro. This is assuming that you are adequately rolled, of course.

I have a friend who plays pro (up to $5/$10 NL 6max). He has played over 2 million hands. Over his last 500k he has averaged 3.5 bb/100; so he is able to pretty accurately calculate average hourly rate (incl rakeback). Once he knows this, he doesn't bother checking his balance hour by hour, or day by day. His attitude to his work is: I have played for 5 hours @ $150 per hour, so I have earnt $750. A great way to minimise tilt and stress.

[LearningCurve]

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I will also be going back to college full-time in the spring to study Business Admin or Entrepreneurship

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This caught my eye as well. I have a Business Admin degree. Now I play poker. This may seem like blasphemy to some but it has been my personal experience that generic degrees like business are just slightly above worthless.

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Haha...Same for me - Finance.

While I certainly wouldn't say it is close to worthless, I do think (unless it's a really specific niche) most of what you need to know you learn on the job. Having said that however, imo not holding a degree makes it decidely more difficult to land a well-paying job.