What is good about faith?

[bigpooch]

The response from Scripture is Hebrews Chapter 11. One
alternative to the NIV is found at

http://www.bible.org/netbible/


What follows is the NIV:

Hebrews 11

By Faith

1Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see. 2This is what the ancients were commended for.
3By faith we understand that the universe was formed at God's command, so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible. 4By faith Abel offered God a better sacrifice than Cain did. By faith he was commended as a righteous man, when God spoke well of his offerings. And by faith he still speaks, even though he is dead.

5By faith Enoch was taken from this life, so that he did not experience death; he could not be found, because God had taken him away. For before he was taken, he was commended as one who pleased God. 6And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.

7By faith Noah, when warned about things not yet seen, in holy fear built an ark to save his family. By his faith he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness that comes by faith.

8By faith Abraham, when called to go to a place he would later receive as his inheritance, obeyed and went, even though he did not know where he was going. 9By faith he made his home in the promised land like a stranger in a foreign country; he lived in tents, as did Isaac and Jacob, who were heirs with him of the same promise. 10For he was looking forward to the city with foundations, whose architect and builder is God.

11By faith Abraham, even though he was past age—and Sarah herself was barren—was enabled to become a father because he(a) considered him faithful who had made the promise. 12And so from this one man, and he as good as dead, came descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and as countless as the sand on the seashore.

13All these people were still living by faith when they died. They did not receive the things promised; they only saw them and welcomed them from a distance. And they admitted that they were aliens and strangers on earth. 14People who say such things show that they are looking for a country of their own. 15If they had been thinking of the country they had left, they would have had opportunity to return. 16Instead, they were longing for a better country—a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for he has prepared a city for them.

17By faith Abraham, when God tested him, offered Isaac as a sacrifice. He who had received the promises was about to sacrifice his one and only son, 18 even though God had said to him, "It is through Isaac that your offspring (b) will be reckoned." (c) 19Abraham reasoned that God could raise the dead, and figuratively speaking, he did receive Isaac back from death.

20By faith Isaac blessed Jacob and Esau in regard to their future.

21By faith Jacob, when he was dying, blessed each of Joseph's sons, and worshiped as he leaned on the top of his staff.

22By faith Joseph, when his end was near, spoke about the exodus of the Israelites from Egypt and gave instructions about his bones.

23By faith Moses' parents hid him for three months after he was born, because they saw he was no ordinary child, and they were not afraid of the king's edict.

24By faith Moses, when he had grown up, refused to be known as the son of Pharaoh's daughter. 25He chose to be mistreated along with the people of God rather than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a short time. 26He regarded disgrace for the sake of Christ as of greater value than the treasures of Egypt, because he was looking ahead to his reward. 27By faith he left Egypt, not fearing the king's anger; he persevered because he saw him who is invisible. 28By faith he kept the Passover and the sprinkling of blood, so that the destroyer of the firstborn would not touch the firstborn of Israel.

29By faith the people passed through the Red Sea (d) as on dry land; but when the Egyptians tried to do so, they were drowned.

30By faith the walls of Jericho fell, after the people had marched around them for seven days.

31By faith the prostitute Rahab, because she welcomed the spies, was not killed with those who were disobedient.(e)

32And what more shall I say? I do not have time to tell about Gideon, Barak, Samson, Jephthah, David, Samuel and the prophets, 33who through faith conquered kingdoms, administered justice, and gained what was promised; who shut the mouths of lions, 34quenched the fury of the flames, and escaped the edge of the sword; whose weakness was turned to strength; and who became powerful in battle and routed foreign armies. 35Women received back their dead, raised to life again. Others were tortured and refused to be released, so that they might gain a better resurrection. 36Some faced jeers and flogging, while still others were chained and put in prison. 37They were stoned;
(f) they were sawed in two; they were put to death by the sword. They went about in sheepskins and goatskins, destitute, persecuted and mistreated— 38the world was not worthy of them. They wandered in deserts and mountains, and in caves and holes in the ground.

39These were all commended for their faith, yet none of them received what had been promised. 40God had planned something better for us so that only together with us would they be made perfect.

Footnotes:

(a) Hebrews 11:11 Or By faith even Sarah, who was past age,
was enabled to bear children because she
(b) Hebrews 11:18 Greek seed
(c) Hebrews 11:18 Gen. 21:12
(d) Hebrews 11:29 That is, Sea of Reeds
(e) Hebrews 11:31 Or unbelieving
(f) Hebrews 11:37 Some early manuscripts stoned; they were
put to the test;

[Silent A]

Yes, you're right. It should be: religion --> community --> happiness. But the important point is that it might not be the religion itself that provides the benefit but rather community that often (but not always) comes with it. This is especially relevant because religion isn't the only way to join a community.

As for your last comment, "I feel the studies suggest (but not prove) that religion is beneficial to the happiness of an individual", I still feel this is putting things too strongly because there is a very good chance that religion itself is a secondary factor.

[Brad1970]

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I know I have fewer worries now than I did when I was a Christian, for sure.

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If you really were a born again follower of Jesus Christ you wouldn't have had worries then or now. At least nothing you couldn't pray about & overcome.

[Sephus]

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I know I have fewer worries now than I did when I was a Christian, for sure.

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If you really were a born again follower of Jesus Christ you wouldn't have had worries then or now. At least nothing you couldn't pray about & overcome.

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worries you "can overcome" are still worries in pretty much every sense.

[carlo]

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CHAPTER XXII

On the contemplation of human misery

Thou art miserable wheresoever thou art, and whithersoever thou
turnest, unless thou turn thee to God. Why art thou disquieted
because it happeneth not to thee according to thy wishes and
desires? Who is he that hath everything according to his will?
Neither I, nor thou, nor any man upon the earth. There is no man
in the world free from trouble or anguish, though he were King or
Pope. Who is he who hath the happiest lot? Even he who is
strong to suffer somewhat for God.

2. There are many foolish and unstable men who say, "See what a
prosperous life that man hath, how rich and how great he is, how
powerful, how exalted." But lift up thine eyes to the good
things of heaven, and thou shalt see that all these worldly
things are nothing, they are utterly uncertain, yea, they are
wearisome, because they are never possessed without care and
fear. The happiness of man lieth not in the abundance of
temporal things but a moderate portion sufficeth him. Our life
upon the earth is verily wretchedness. The more a man desireth
to be spiritual, the more bitter doth the present life become to
him; because he the better understandeth and seeth the defects of
human corruption. For to eat, to drink, to watch, to sleep, to
rest, to labour, and to be subject to the other necessities of
nature, is truly a great wretchedness and affliction to a devout
man, who would fain be released and free from all sin.

3. For the inner man is heavily burdened with the necessities of
the body in this world. Wherefore the prophet devoutly prayeth
to be freed from them, saying, Deliver me from my necessities, O
Lord.(1) But woe to those who know not their own misery, and yet
greater woe to those who love this miserable and corruptible
life. For to such a degree do some cling to it (even though by
labouring or begging they scarce procure what is necessary for
subsistence) that if they might live here always, they would care
nothing for the Kingdom of God.

4. Oh foolish and faithless of heart, who lie buried so deep in
worldly things, that they relish nothing save the things of the
flesh! Miserable ones! they will too sadly find out at the
last, how vile and worthless was that which they loved. The
saints of God and all loyal friends of Christ held as nothing the
things which pleased the flesh, or those which flourished in
this life, but their whole hope and affection aspired to the
things which are above. Their whole desire was borne upwards to
everlasting and invisible things, lest they should be drawn
downwards by the love of things visible.


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[/ QUOTE ]

Thomas A Kempis "The Imitation of Christ"--Chapter 22

Faith is not about "happiness" on this Earth. It is that by which one seeks and reaches God.

[KipBond]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I know I have fewer worries now than I did when I was a Christian, for sure.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you really were a born again follower of Jesus Christ you wouldn't have had worries then or now. At least nothing you couldn't pray about & overcome.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, I was a True Scotsman. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

[jackflashdrive]

The ultimate reality is that nothing matters. Rape, pillage, kill someone else, kill yourself -- or don't, it really doesn't matter. If you think otherwise, then a faith of one sort or another must underpin this belief.

Nihlism is very bad for society, which is why anyone who cares about society (despite the fact that it does not in fact matter) should be concerned about faith being removed from society.

[tpir]

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The ultimate reality is that nothing matters.

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What is this ultimate reality you are talking about?


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If you think otherwise, then a faith of one sort or another must underpin this belief.

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Well that's not true. I know quite a few people who have no faith but choose not to rape and pillage because those are bad life strategies.


[ QUOTE ]
Nihlism is very bad for society, which is why anyone who cares about society (despite the fact that it does not in fact matter) should be concerned about faith being removed from society.

[/ QUOTE ]
Kind of a false dilemma here. Nihilism and faith aren't the only two choices.

[foal]

[ QUOTE ]
Yes, you're right. It should be: religion --> community --> happiness. But the important point is that it might not be the religion itself that provides the benefit but rather community that often (but not always) comes with it. This is especially relevant because religion isn't the only way to join a community.


[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah... but also, I imagine being part of a community ups seratonin levels and joining a community is not the only thing that ups seratonin levels. That logic seems like a slippery slope. But I to further answer the question (which I don't think is even particularly useful in the first place) it would be interesting to look at religious people versus people who are not religious, but who are part of a community similar to the ones that religions offer.

[foal]

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The ultimate reality is that nothing matters. Rape, pillage, kill someone else, kill yourself -- or don't, it really doesn't matter.

[/ QUOTE ]

We dislike pain, we feel empathy for others, we have a sense of justice, we would rather not go to prison, etcetera.