girls who play poker - a turn off for guys who don't play poker?

[VoraciousReader]

Point conceded.

[img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

But somehow they seem to have a greater "impact".

[gusmahler]

[ QUOTE ]
But it's very true that men usually don't care what kind of job a woman has. In fact, men tend to marry women with worse jobs than they have themselves.

[/ QUOTE ]Actually, that shows men DO care what job a woman has.

I was actually surprsed when my single female attorney colleagues were telling me that many guys are scared off by the fact that they are attorneys (presumably because they don't want to date a woman more "successful" than they are.) They actually don't tell the guys they meet they are attorneys until a few dates have occurred.

[Blarg]

No, that's not how and why it is working. Women tend to marry upwards, because they can. Far more than men, they are the sex that does the choosing. As the choosers, by generally choosing men with better jobs and/or social status than their own, this leaves men for the most part viable marital partners only to women with worse jobs and/or social status than their own. Men, unless up toward the top of the social hierarchy, where they may be entirely oblivious to it, learn this through experience quickly enough. Many more probably want to date and marry women of their own "level" or higher, or do so without regard to social levels at all, than do, but realize it's not likely to work out, or to work for long. Men know that women with better opportunities will generally take them. So they tend to to go where they are wanted rather than waste their time.

[VoraciousReader]

actually,

as far as social class, most studies indicate that women tend to marry down MUCH more often than men do. income of course, is a horse of a different color. but men tend to marry within their own class or up.

[Jamougha]

[ QUOTE ]
actually,

as far as social class, most studies indicate that women tend to marry down MUCH more often than men do. income of course, is a horse of a different color. but men tend to marry within their own class or up.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure how this is even possible.

[Blarg]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
actually,

as far as social class, most studies indicate that women tend to marry down MUCH more often than men do. income of course, is a horse of a different color. but men tend to marry within their own class or up.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure how this is even possible.

[/ QUOTE ]

This contradicts what I've read, and I see no basis for how it could possibly happen, and every reason for it not to.

[tarheeljks]

if down excludes income, are you only talking about level of attractiveness?

[Dan BRIGHT]

women marry more for value while men marry more for attractiveness

the reason women have a natural disadvantage at poker is their lack of testicles.... a requisite for bold and aggressive no limit manuevers

[MrWookie]

Actually, Blarg, I've read about some dating studies and models that have shown that men tend to marry up and women tend to marry down. Think about this: men tend to be the ones to do the asking and making the advances. Women then accept or reject the guy. Now the men naturally will tend to flock to the top girls, or at least the top girls they think they can reasonably get to accept them. In this model, then, the men will tend to select the women they ask out from the whole pool of available women, and the women will be stuck choosing only from the pool of men who ask them out. The women who rate as 10s will tend to get hounded by most every man in the dating pool, or at least the men who rate as 7s and up who think they have a chance, even if it's a longshot. If 10-man doesn't come along in time for a 10-woman to choose, she might just as well settle for a good 9 who's asked her out. Compare them to the 9-women. They'll get plenty of attention, sure, but not from the 9- and 10-men. The 10-men will tend to only seek out the 10-women, and only if they really turn up empty do they start looking down. The 9-men know they don't stand quite as good a chance with the 10-women, but they'll happily take their chances. Consequently, the 9-women won't get as much attention from the 9-men, although they'll get plenty of attention from the 8-men. We can continue this all the way down the chain. Consequently, in this model, one would expect the men to end up with the best woman who's willing to accept him, and the women will tend to end up with the lowest man she's willing to accept.

[Blarg]

I think your logic falls apart when it comes to describing how men think of "the top women." Men's first choices tend to be based on looks and perhaps secondarily on personality. How much money women make is invisible to those considerations. Further, it doesn't matter much whether a man knows it or not, because our cultural expectations are still firmly in line with the idea that men provide, whereas women's jobs are either optional or can be quite trivial and indifferently paying, or simply temporary. Men don't expect to profit much from a woman's income or care about it, but know theirs matters a lot.

I think you're even quite wrong as to which women men find most attractive. Over the years, I've read interviews with three different madams at three different times, for instance, and they all said the women who get both the most initial and repeat business are the ones who are merely pretty or even plain, not the gorgeous ones. Even when they are paying for sex, apparently men are well-adapted to going after what is more likely to pay off rather than their greatest fantasy as to looks. Showing that the average man's greatest fantasy, despite our macho efforts to kid around otherwise, is not strictly physical beauty, but someone acceptably attractive who is reasonably likely to put up with us.

This is the same reason beautiful women in a bar are sometimes left alone, and you often hear of gorgeous women saying it's surprising how often guys are too intimidated to ask them out, and that they wind up spending an awful lot of time alone. Not that a lot of them would necessarily accept or enjoy the attentions of many of those might want to ask them out anyway, but it's pretty perverse how those things can work.