downswing, looking for help.... - Page 4

sluggger5x · #31 07-26-2007, 04:50 PM

[ QUOTE ]
You play on FT right? I think I played with you recently.

[/ QUOTE ]

correct.

jonyy6788 · #32 07-26-2007, 04:50 PM

Just looking at a few of these hands you are an incredible payoff wizard.

Nato76 · #33 07-26-2007, 04:55 PM

I will check out some hands we played together in Poker Tracker when I get home.

BackdoorQuads · #34 07-26-2007, 05:06 PM

From Round 2...

1: C/R-AI on the turn?

2: Fold pre-flop. Raise or fold on the flop.

3: Check the turn, call reasonable river bet?

4: The turn is...eh. I'd check behind, I think I'm beat now. If you're betting, you think he's on the flush draw? If so, you MUST fold the river. If you don't think he's on the flush draw, you shouldn't bet.

5: How I'd play it, but I always overplay QQ. Doesn't seem bad to me.

6: Fold the flop after the button raises. He's raising in a protected pot, one pair doesn't look all that great here.

7: Reraise pre-flop. As played, fold flop.

8: Raise or fold the turn. As played, the river sucks, but I probably call and pay off.

9: I get it all in on the flop and hope I'm ahead, but that might be wrong. As played, I hate the turn bet.

10: Check-raise this flop, fold to a push? Possibly re-raise pre-flop. A read would help (on all these hands...)

11: I call here all day. But that might be wrong. It's such a wet board, but we are facing a check-raise...Weird.

12: Fold to the turn check-raise. I'm not sure I like the bet once the third diamond hits. I think checking behind and calling something reasonable on the river is better.

13: Seems okay to me.

14: Fold flop? As played, fold to the huge push. A read would help.

15: I'm stacking off here.

I'll explain in more detail if you ask for a specific hand. Without reads, this is tough.

Triggerle · #35 07-26-2007, 05:08 PM

The second batch of hands looks really spewy. Try to pot control more with one-pair hands. Learn to fold TP before you get all-in.

mvdgaag · #36 07-26-2007, 05:17 PM

I'm no expert but I can see some flaws and recognise quite a few that I had fixed myself...

H1: I bet a bit more on the turn... The Q might have helped him and there is a backdoor FD.

H2: Fold to the 4bet of call and play for a set... Expect a 3betting range (unless proven otherwise) to be AA-QQ and AKs. You're way behind that range.

H3: Raising A4o from CO is very marginal, because your ace is likely to be dominated. I'd normally put a cbet of around $3 in and give up to any resistance and slow down if called. The turn was lucky and the rest is standard IMO.

H4: standard. I think.

H5: I make a small bet on the river, mainly to prevent a large bluff and maybe extract some value out of a smaller pair... You are only getting called by better hands. A call/call/call line is a weak/passive player drawing or a big pair going for pot control in a WA/WB situation. If he missed the flush he'll fold to a small bet and if he's afraid he's WA/AB he'll just call. Only if you're beat he's likely to call a bigger bet.

H6: AQ is not a hand to go allin with before the flop. The range you can expect to be up against is AA-QQ and AK. You are in very bad shape against all of these.

H7: T9o is very marginal for raising. I think you played well postflop. You probably posted this because he had 99 and you lost to a fullhouse

H8: Standard up to the turn... You only have a pair of 99! Think of the range he would push allin with. Most of it will beat any pair. You are most likely op against 45, a set, or a big overpair.

H9: AK is an ok 4bet allin hand if your opponent's range to call you also includes JJ and TT and you often pick up the pot because he's 3betting light and folding to 4bets often...
Against an unknown I don't like to push to a 4bet though. I probably do it anyways sometimes, because I don't want to flat call... If you flat call you get 3 cards instead of 5 to catch an ace or king and they might not even be good.

Your PFR and VPIP look ok. I think one mayor problem is that once you have some money involved or start raising you don't fold enough to 3bets (preflop and postflop). The range you can put someone on after a 3bet is often the nuts or close to it.

There's no shame in folding when you are likely to be beat. Don't try to win the most pots, but try to win the most money instead (and lose the least, which is equivalent)... Start believing your opponents and know when you are beat; very few opponents bluff habitually and they won't last long.

Finally when you bet, bet because worse hands are calling or better ones are folding... Don't bet when worse hands are folding and better ones are calling. Sounds quite logical, but you have to put it in practise too.

Hope I could help....
GL

EDIT: oh... I now see there are more hands, but I think they were on the next page. I think these were enough to make a point though.

sluggger5x · #37 07-26-2007, 05:25 PM

mvdgaag and backdoor: analysis much appreciated, thanks!

mvdgaag · #38 07-26-2007, 05:49 PM

Ok... here is the rest

H10: I rather checkraise this flop. If he has two overs we'll pick up an extra bet. If he reraises I put him on a bigger pair and fold. If he just calls i proceed cautiously. The 2 on the turn doesn't scare me. There is no 2 in his range as far as I'm concerned. I fold still.

H11: Cooler if he has a set... I see him do this with a monsterdraw and QQ/KK as well. I can't let go of aces either, but I think some will argue you have to let go to the allin bet.

H12: Fold the turn... You don't want to go broke with one pair

H13: I raise to about $5, but 6 is ok.... He's probably not calling on a draw (unless he knows you are the payoff wizzard you seem to be [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]). I put him on a jack and check behind for pot control. As played I fold too...

H14: Flop is ok if he donks with anything. Fold to the big raise... Don't want to go broke with one pair.

H15: Another enormous crazy overbet. You must be facing these a lot against regulars since they know you'll call with just a pair [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]. I'd have a hard time, but I call here.

Note that everything in this and my previous post are just what I'd do. I don't think I suck, but I'm far from being a professional. I often write you only have one pair and you don't want to stack off with one pair... This is true in general. If people start pushing you around too often I might start calling a couple of these allin overbets with TPTK, but as a stadard I fold. I wonder what others here think about it... Maybe I'm a bit weak, but I certainly don't pay off easy


EDIT Can't seem to edit my last post.... H4: I fold the river, he's got a flush... I missed it the first time

sluggger5x · #39 07-26-2007, 06:09 PM

It looks like a huge problem that I am having is overvaluing overpairs (JJ-AA) on flop/turn and TPTK (especially AJ-AQ, on what seem to be dry boards).

What I think this comes down to for me personally is not having the patience to find optimal spots to get my money in against weaker players.

example:
ok so villian is 35/12/5 over 300 hands. I know he is aggressive, but not completely incompetent...

Full Tilt Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.25/$0.50
6 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $66.95
UTG+1: $49.70
CO: $45.25
sluggger5x: $68.30
SB: $91
BB: $50.75

Pre-flop: (6 players) sluggger5x is Button with Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
2 folds, CO raises to $1.75, sluggger5x raises to $6, 2 folds, CO calls.

Flop: 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] ($12.75, 2 players)
CO checks, sluggger5x bets $12.75, CO raises to $30, sluggger5x raises all-in $62.3, CO calls all-in $9.25.
Uncalled bets: $23.05 returned to sluggger5x.

Turn: 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ($91.25, 0 player + 2 all-in - Main pot: $91.25)

River: 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ($91.25, 0 player + 2 all-in - Main pot: $91.25)

Results:
Final pot: $91.25

This is a +ev play imo. However, only slightly. If I had to guess I'd say I'm ahead 55-60% of the time while he has me beat with set/AA/KK the other 40-45% of the time. Also factor in his heart draws or AKs/AQs in which case I am near even money. There are of course alot of variables here, but this is my standing on the hand.

So....maybe my big leak is picking slightly marginal +ev spots to get my money in (most times 100bbs+).

Is it fair to say that a better player would have the sense to fold this hand simply for the sake of finding a better spot?? OR Is it foolish to play this way because optimal poker is played when pushing every single +ev edge???

BackdoorQuads · #40 07-26-2007, 06:16 PM

That looks really similar to - http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...;gonew=1#UNREAD - Actually, after seeing that, your hand is almost certainly a fold. On the flop I make it $9-$10, but full pot is fine. Pushing every edge is dependent on your tolerance for risk. If you're flipping 51/49 for stacks often, you're going to have a high variance, which leads to bigger swings. If you don't like big swings, you shouldn't be flipping all the time. However, you'll have a lower win rate.