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#31
07-27-2007, 03:11 AM
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Re: What is sin (or evil)?
I'll hazard a guess and say that sin is anything one person does that retards another persons abilities to pass on their genes. I'm thinking of it in the most meta-frame, that we are all gene machines, ala Dawkins "Selfish Gene". I've just realised that killing a 60yr old woman isn't a sin by my definition, so maybe I'll rethink it.. hah. 
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#32
07-27-2007, 03:26 AM
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Re: What is sin (or evil)?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] So can we tell the difference between someone who is saved and someone who isn't by their actions? [/ QUOTE ] We aren't supposed to judge the state of someone else's soul, but only our own. Of course, we have to evaluate what they say when it pertains to what we do - politics, education, etc. [ QUOTE ] Also, by your definition it seems that to be human is by our very nature to be sinful. Basically anything we do, aside from praising God, is sinful? [/ QUOTE ] Nothing an unbeliever does can please God except to repent and believe. For a believer, we are to do good works. God is the final judge as to whether anything we do is acceptable. [/ QUOTE ] This seems weird because it allows a bizarre outcome. Let's say two people live the exact same life but one of them repents and accepts Jesus at age 16. Even though they are doing the exact same things, one is sinful and one is not. That doesn't seem right. Anyway, do you believe that you can call any specific action evil or sinful without knowing whether the actor is a Christian?
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#33
07-27-2007, 05:17 AM
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Re: What is sin (or evil)?
[ QUOTE ]
Anyway, do you believe that you can call any specific action evil or sinful without knowing whether the actor is a Christian? [/ QUOTE ] Really, the only issue is whether you realize that Christ died for sin. It gets a little tedious that people constantly try to pin down Christians on whether X or Y is a sin, whether A or B is going to hell. I can say til I'm blue in the face that all unbelievers sin all the time and that I don't know who is saved and the next post Sklansky makes will be "Is C going to hell even though he has a good heart?"
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#34
07-27-2007, 05:35 AM
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Re: What is sin (or evil)?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Anyway, do you believe that you can call any specific action evil or sinful without knowing whether the actor is a Christian? [/ QUOTE ] Really, the only issue is whether you realize that Christ died for sin. It gets a little tedious that people constantly try to pin down Christians on whether X or Y is a sin, whether A or B is going to hell. I can say til I'm blue in the face that all unbelievers sin all the time and that I don't know who is saved and the next post Sklansky makes will be "Is C going to hell even though he has a good heart?" [/ QUOTE ] I'm basically trying to understand what people mean when they say humans are sinful by their nature. I just don't get what that means since nobody has a good definition of what sin is. If it just means that we all need to accept Christ, then we shouldn't label any actions as evil. I was also simply curious as to what nonbelievers think the term 'evil' means. I personally don't think evil really exists because the concept doesn't really make sense to me. As I've said, people almost always believe their actions are justified. I think a big reason why Sklansky and others keep posing these hypotheticals is because they don't believe your position to be consistent. Many Christians say that the only way to be saved is by accepting Christ as your savior, but then they say they don't know who gets saved and who doesn't.
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#35
07-27-2007, 09:39 AM
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Re: What is sin (or evil)?
[ QUOTE ]
I'm basically trying to understand what people mean when they say humans are sinful by their nature. ... Many Christians say that the only way to be saved is by accepting Christ as your savior, but then they say they don't know who gets saved and who doesn't. [/ QUOTE ] It's simple, really. I'll help NR out: 1) God created Adam & Eve as spiritually alive. 2) Adam & Eve sinned, died spiritually ("the wages of sin is (spiritual) death"). 3) Their offspring (us) were born spiritually dead. 4) Anything not of faith, not in accordance with God's will, not of the spirit, is sin. 5) Spiritually dead people cannot do Good. They can only Sin. 6) Blood atonement is required for sin to be absolved ("without the shedding of blood, there is no forgiveness"). 7) Jesus was the perfect atonement, absolving all sin for all time (possibly only if you believe in him). 8) The Holy Spirit was given to bring the spiritually dead back to spiritual life. 9) If you confess/repent, and believe in Jesus, then you will be "saved" (made spiritually alive). 10) Spiritually alive people can do Good (God's will, by faith), and go to Heaven. 11) Only God knows who truly repents & believes (he judges the heart) and is therefore saved. 12) We can know them (the saved) "by their fruits" (actions), but we can't know what's in their hearts, so can't know for sure if they are truly saved or not. Simple, see?
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#36
07-27-2007, 09:50 AM
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Re: What is sin (or evil)?
[ QUOTE ]
I'm basically trying to understand what people mean when they say humans are sinful by their nature. [/ QUOTE ] It means they can't please God. It means whatever they do is colored by bad motives - "A little leaven leavens the whole lump of dough". [ QUOTE ] Many Christians say that the only way to be saved is by accepting Christ as your savior, but then they say they don't know who gets saved and who doesn't. [/ QUOTE ] Salvation is by faith, a genuine act of repentance and trust in Christ. That's the how. But I can't know if someone else has exercised genuine faith. That's not inconsistent. And I don't think that's why Sklansky keeps repeating the same hypothet.
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#38
07-27-2007, 09:57 AM
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Re: What is sin (or evil)?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] I'm basically trying to understand what people mean when they say humans are sinful by their nature. ... Many Christians say that the only way to be saved is by accepting Christ as your savior, but then they say they don't know who gets saved and who doesn't. [/ QUOTE ] It's simple, really. I'll help NR out: 1) God created Adam & Eve as spiritually alive. 2) Adam & Eve sinned, died spiritually ("the wages of sin is (spiritual) death"). 3) Their offspring (us) were born spiritually dead. 4) Anything not of faith, not in accordance with God's will, not of the spirit, is sin. 5) Spiritually dead people cannot do Good. They can only Sin. 6) Blood atonement is required for sin to be absolved ("without the shedding of blood, there is no forgiveness"). 7) Jesus was the perfect atonement, absolving all sin for all time (possibly only if you believe in him). 8) The Holy Spirit was given to bring the spiritually dead back to spiritual life. 9) If you confess/repent, and believe in Jesus, then you will be "saved" (made spiritually alive). 10) Spiritually alive people can do Good (God's will, by faith), and go to Heaven. 11) Only God knows who truly repents & believes (he judges the heart) and is therefore saved. 12) We can know them (the saved) "by their fruits" (actions), but we can't know what's in their hearts, so can't know for sure if they are truly saved or not. Simple, see? [/ QUOTE ] And you believe all of this, or was it sarcasm? [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
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#39
07-27-2007, 10:10 AM
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Re: What is sin (or evil)?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] It's simple, really. I'll help NR out: ... [/ QUOTE ] You took the words right out of my mouth and saved me a lot of typing. [/ QUOTE ] You're welcome. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]
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