Almost in a bar fight and called a Racist!

[Taso]

So are they going by Native Americans or Indians now? I always thought it was Native Americans (as, it does make sense, comared to Indians at least) but people seem to be saying both.

[Blarg]

Woo-woo Indians. Make the gesture.

[Fishwhenican]

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So are they going by Native Americans or Indians now? I always thought it was Native Americans (as, it does make sense, comared to Indians at least) but people seem to be saying both.

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Ya, that is something a little different here. Indians call themselves Indians and most folks around here use the word Indian and it is pretty normal. Referring to "Indian Time" is normal and everyone here knows what you are referring to and I am sure in many places it would be out of place.

Anyway, Native American is far more politically correct in most places and I even try to use that term at times. I asked my Boss about this one time (He is Native American) and he said that using the term "Indigenous People" was even more correct but I still haven't heard that being used much anywhere.

So, If I were giving advice I would say in most places in the world it would be wise to refer to Native Americans as Native Americans. Where I am at we use Indian all the time, but things are different here.

[Fishwhenican]

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Finding out the right emergency contact number is elementary for people who work in bars and restaurants and hotels, etc.. They should be told it on their first day on the job.

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She was told to call 911 if she needed the sheriff's deputy. She was also told how to run the cash register and how much whiskey to put in a Crown and Coke. Pretty much all you need to know to bartend around here.

Again, in a large city or really just about anywhere larger than we are I agree with NOT calling 911 unless it is a real emergency. This is a totally different deal out here.

[Fishwhenican]

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I don't think his family putting him up to it matters.

Either way, he's the one doing the apologizing, going out and publicly humbling himself. He could tell his family to take a hike, too. But instead he shows up. Score one in the good guy column for him.

It's like with your wife; even if she doesn't 100% believe his apology, she should accept it anyway. The dude, even if he doesn't 100% feel at fault, should apologize anyway. Making and accepting the apology is good for both people, because it gives them a chance to get over things instead of letting them sit and fester and have their resentments just harden and become permanent. Probably, if an apology is accepted, with a little time -- if he doesn't already! -- the guy will feel his apology 100%, and your wife will forgive him enough to not regret accepting his apology.

Being mad at each other can feel satisfying and a bit righteous, but carrying permanent grudges, especially when the other person is trying to make amends, is pointless and perverse. If we were talking real crime or something here, it could be different. But in the end, this is pretty petty stuff.

So anyway, whether either party is 100% on the apology, faking it till you make it is healthier for both of them.

Also, FWIW, this kind of thing is good life training in general. Getting past obstacles like these makes for a more experienced, better person. The next bad minor thing that comes up, if she handles this one well, will be a lot easier. Maybe she'll even be nicer to you one day when you two, or she and one of the kids, have an argument that seems hard to back off from or get into apologies about. Seriously, everything like this is an opportunity to add to your emotional arsenal and store of wisdom, so it would be a shame to waste it. That kinda thing comes in really handy when you need it.

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FWIW, I agree with you and I personally would not have a problem accepting an apology from this guy. Hell, I would likely laugh it off and offer to have a beer with him. Doesn't mean I would ever trust the guy again but that would be a whole different thing.

But we are dealing with a woman here and that forgiveness thing is a whole lot different there. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[daveT]

I have to side with the wife here.

I personally don't like platitudes. I understand that they are necessary to some points. But I do put honesty first in most parts of my life.

The guy was drunk, but who cares. If she accepts to apology, then he will have an implicit invitation to return to the bar, bringing other people like him (racists), and possibly creating more problems, running away regulars, and devolving the bar into a dive.

I have had friends who were like Dr Jeckyl/ Mr. Hyde, the potion in this case being alcohol. Like Mr. Hyde, this drunk person is a true part of themselves. I don't have time to figure out if one person is drunk or not. If I have to imply they are drunk when they something rude, I don't have time for it. There would be no reason to invite these people into my life. And I most certainly do not want these people occupying a bar stool at my job for eight or more hours on any given night.

There seems to be a thing, that if someone apologizes, you have to accept it. "I am sorry, I was drunk. I am a racist, but last night, I let my emotions show. I really am not a pig, please let me justify my racist actions so I can feel better about myself, but have no need to work out my issues, because next time I spout racist BS, I will be forgiven."

No. He needs to know that he has genuinely hurt someones feelings. And he should know that the other people can feel the same pain as does. He obviously hasn't forgiven the racists he encountered (probably more perceived than real). Why should he be treated better than the next hateful person that comes along?

I doubt that 911 on Montana is like 911 in LA.

[Fishwhenican]

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Cop starts talking to him and eventually he is getting handcuffed and taken to jail. Guess he said the wrong thing to the racist sheriff's deputy.

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I am not really sure how to read your changing this statement to turn the sheriff's Deputy into a racist, but let's just say I do not agree with this.

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My thoughts:

--Don't call 911 to get a rude/drunk/mental case removed from a bar. 911 is for emergencies.

--If the guy goes that far out of his way to find your wife and apologize, you respect that, and accept his apology. Or maybe the racist shoe fits your wife, ever think of that? (I don't know if it does or not, but I was startled to hear about her exaggerated reaction to his apology.)

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This guy didn't go real far out of his way to apologize to my wife. I am fairly certain that this wouldn't have happened if he didn't have to come into town to get his car and if his relatives hadn't told him that he needed to apologized.

Granted I still think it takes a lot to deliver an apology like that no matter the circumstances.

Now if you would like to stop referring to my wife as a racist I will stop the urge I have to give you a swift kick in the nuts after reading that.

Look neither one of us is a racist. If I thought she was acting that way in any way shape or form I would have told her so. We both have many friends here who are Native American and we do not see them as being any different than any other people out there in the world.

I also, just as a reality check, talked to some of my NA friends to make sure I wasn't seeing something wrong. These are people who were there and others who were not but know this guy. All of them agreed that both of us were 100% fine with what we did. They did not see my wife being racist in any way this guy was just being am idiot and got treated the way any idiot would. They also told me that I was much calmer and in control with this guy than they ever would have been, so I felt pretty good about that as well.

[monkeyfightclub]

Did his apology include anything about "smokem peace pipe"?

[Fishwhenican]

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I have to side with the wife here.

I personally don't like platitudes. I understand that they are necessary to some points. But I do put honesty first in most parts of my life.

The guy was drunk, but who cares. If she accepts to apology, then he will have an implicit invitation to return to the bar, bringing other people like him (racists), and possibly creating more problems, running away regulars, and devolving the bar into a dive.

I have had friends who were like Dr Jeckyl/ Mr. Hyde, the potion in this case being alcohol. Like Mr. Hyde, this drunk person is a true part of themselves. I don't have time to figure out if one person is drunk or not. If I have to imply they are drunk when they something rude, I don't have time for it. There would be no reason to invite these people into my life. And I most certainly do not want these people occupying a bar stool at my job for eight or more hours on any given night.

There seems to be a thing, that if someone apologizes, you have to accept it. "I am sorry, I was drunk. I am a racist, but last night, I let my emotions show. I really am not a pig, please let me justify my racist actions so I can feel better about myself, but have no need to work out my issues, because next time I spout racist BS, I will be forgiven."

No. He needs to know that he has genuinely hurt someones feelings. And he should know that the other people can feel the same pain as does. He obviously hasn't forgiven the racists he encountered (probably more perceived than real). Why should he be treated better than the next hateful person that comes along?

I doubt that 911 on Montana is like 911 in LA.

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Very true Dave.
One of the points my wife made when we were discussing this was that being drunk is not valid excuse for saying things like he did. Being drunk nearly takes away our inhibitions and let a person speak what they actually believe.

I am probably too forgiving but I sure can see this point and hers as well.

My town and county are so different than LA that is would be hard to compare the two at all.
Stats for the county:
5027 Square Miles
Population as of 2000: 9383

Stats for our town:
7.5 Square Miles
464 people

LA County
4752 Square Miles
Population: 9,948,081

Ya, 911 is a little different here

[Fishwhenican]

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Did his apology include anything about "smokem peace pipe"?

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NO it did not!
Frankly that comment is pretty crappy, deserves a kick in the nuts and a banning from "The Lounge"

And some people do not believe racism still exists today, geeze! [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]