JTs Flops OESD in Reraised Pot

[JackAll]

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Bet-fold, this flop has a fair bit of FE. I prefer to call preflop aswell.

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Calling pf here is pretty bad unless u can make some nice moves.

If you c/r all-in when you hit, I guess it adds nicely to shania if you check with AA/KK pf to a 3-bet too and c/r all-in. I think at 200nl shania makes no difference and in isolation calling pf oop just sucks - so fold or raise pf.


Anyway, as played, lets knock out pairs set-mining, and TT/JJ/AQ. I think AA/KK/QQ might not push all that often here if we bet and we can peel a free card if we miss turn.

[Austiger]

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To those who are stating that this is a very easy cbet. I'm not so sure you're considering his range here. When he shoves, we have less that 30% equity most of the time.

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Please put villain on a range, then put us on a range from his perspective, then tell us which hands he is check/shoving with. I don't think it happens very often. He has to be concerned with AA/KK/QQ from us unless he has one of those, and if he does he will usually slowplay. By betting we accomplish several things: 1. bluff him out of the best hand. 2. get a free card. 3. build the pot if we hit our strt. 4. size the bet ourselves (i.e. we bet 30, then check the turn, rather than check the flop and call 50.)

[Casper05]

I'd check

Yes, we are folding out pocket pairs less than QQ..but we can take the free card and stack AK/QQ+ if we hit on the turn..and those hands push over our c-bet a lot of the time (they call some too, but whatever they arent folding so we just put money in the pot way behind)

..and if we miss he will not check back AK/QQ+ on the turn, so we can very easily take it down on the turn when he checks his TT or whatever.

Not sure if all that makes sense: basically betting the flop does nothing- it folds out all the hands that would fold to our turn bet anyway, and hands that beat us are fairly likely to push and not allow us to draw. Checking the flop allows us to still beat underpairs because they are ch/folding all the way, but it ALSO allows us to stack AK/QQ+ if we hit.

[ValarMorghulis]

I really dislike betting, it allows us to get pushed off our draw by loads of hands. He could easily c/shove gutshots and other crap (because we have a wide range and are cbetting most of that range).

[ikestoys]

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To those who are stating that this is a very easy cbet. I'm not so sure you're considering his range here. When he shoves, we have less that 30% equity most of the time.

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and when he folds or calls we have pretty good equity... whats the prob?

[Womble]

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I'd check

Yes, we are folding out pocket pairs less than QQ..but we can take the free card and stack AK/QQ+ if we hit on the turn..and those hands push over our c-bet a lot of the time (they call some too, but whatever they arent folding so we just put money in the pot way behind)

..and if we miss he will not check back AK/QQ+ on the turn, so we can very easily take it down on the turn when he checks his TT or whatever.

Not sure if all that makes sense: basically betting the flop does nothing- it folds out all the hands that would fold to our turn bet anyway, and hands that beat us are fairly likely to push and not allow us to draw. Checking the flop allows us to still beat underpairs because they are ch/folding all the way, but it ALSO allows us to stack AK/QQ+ if we hit.

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Exactly what I was thinking - I really wouldnt want to get raised on this flop and I doubt we ever get called if we cbet - villain will just raise or fold.

Also, about PF. CO range is wide so why not 3bet him? Obviously calling is good too but when in the button vs a CO raise surely he is going to have weaker hands a lot of the time and even when he has good hands he will still fold due to being OOP

[ikestoys]

basically, we fold out hands we beat and have good equity against hands he calls with...

there are only 3... maybe four hands he pushes here, more that he calls... and much more than he folds

[AggJedi]

To everyone who wants to check this flop, what do you do if you hold TT or JJ instead? What about AQ?

I see no reason not to bet this flop.

[Casper05]

ike, what hands are in a TAGs range that call a c-bet on this flop? This is a pretty nasty flop for any pair lower than QQ, and if he called with some lower suited connector he's going to ditch that as well.

[Nick Royale]

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basically, we fold out hands we beat and have good equity against hands he calls with...

there are only 3... maybe four hands he pushes here, more that he calls... and much more than he folds

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If I thought villain would bluff the turn a decent percentage of the time or call our bet light on the turn if we check the flop I agree c-betting is better. Ime I get a ton of cred even if I check the flop in this situation so I think checking is better. I don't think it's unlikely villain will c/r AA-QQ/AK/KQ/55, but I don't think it's a sitaution where villain will never call either. With those hands he'll generally call a about 50% I'd guess.