Stars $55r bvb vs. colson

[registrar]

Isn't the thought simply that he's happy enough to get it in agaisnt a range that shoves OTT 4x in BvB but not against a hand that resteals allin in BvB, which is to say that AT+ and 66+ is a fairly easy shove over 4x, whatever we make of it, and this is fine by villain, whereas it's going to kind of suck if he induces a push from high unpaired hands he doesn't dominate or gets called OOP with a whiffing hand.

[curtains]

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Colson is not some child idiot who's preflop hand strength headsup should be easily read due to the amount of his raise (at least that's the impression I get though I've never played with him). Against a good player like this I suspect that you'd be best served ignoring little "tells" like this and just playing normally.

I mean wtf, he's such a great player, yet you can also narrow down his hand range so much because he raises very slightly more PF? It seems ridiculous to me.

I'd basically do whatever you would do if he raised to 3x-3.5x the BB here.

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My apologies this post was clearly misguided. I wrote it and then left the house and have been wanting to edit it for 2 hours.

Of course you should not play the same against a 3x BB raise than against a 4x BB raise. However the change should almost surely be incremenetal. In a spot like this for every amount more your opponent raises, you should usually slightly reduce your range. Against a good player you should probably make sure that whatever range you do choose to play doesn't allow him to start exploiting you by raising a certain amount.

I'm not sure where the cutoff is in terms of hands you should play if the raise is 3x, 3.5x or 4x, but I don't believe it's drastic enough where against a 3-3.5x raise A7o is an obvious push but against a 4x raise its a clear fold.

The effective blinds due to the antes are about 1000/2000 anyway, so hes basically raising in between 3-3.5x the BB.

[adanthar]

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I think I fold. Because I don't see anyone ever 4xing and folding to a shove.

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but surely colson knows of the 4x tell? what level zooooomg

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he does, which leaves one of two reasons for raising 4x - having a decent/good hand that's tough to play OOP, or just bluffing (which still means A7's a fold all things considered)

[curtains]

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I think I fold. Because I don't see anyone ever 4xing and folding to a shove.

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but surely colson knows of the 4x tell? what level zooooomg

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he does, which leaves one of two reasons for raising 4x - having a decent/good hand that's tough to play OOP, or just bluffing (which still means A7's a fold all things considered)

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Ok but needless to say it's extremely clear that if villain raises to 4x BB and we fold A7o, that villain should do this with any 2 cards, and its not even remotely close. I mean its ridiculous huge huge ++ EV to raise any 2 to 4x the BB there in colsons spot if our range is this tight.

Of course colson probably has a right to some +EV plays, but I really don't think its ever an "clear fold" when you are allowing yourself to be potentially exploited so badly.

[MLG]

yeah,
it seems to me that colson is just raising more to make it a push or fold decision for you. given the stack sizes lots of bad things can happen if he makes it 3x and you call. its hard for him to c-bet and fold lots of weird medium to weakish hands with it being BvB, but at the same time he isnt going to want to check and give up on lots of flops. so to avoid putting himself in a crappy flop spot id bet he's making it 4x with like all his hands here, including straight trash.

[ActionJeff]

exactly, hes trying to make it more of a push or fold decision. However, if you read him correctly and respond correctly, his play should have the opposite effect; you should be calling more and pushing a tight range.

Unless Colson makes an absurdly large range that denies you preflop fold equity, you still have the flexibility to push to a flop c bet after flat calling preflop- which obviously isn't desireable for him. My point being, that against an opponent who correctly assesses what Colson is doing and responds accordingly, his 4x raise is worse than a 3x raise. Against most opponents, who would flat call less and turn it into a push/fold game because of the increased $ in the pot, Carl's play works perfectly. So you basically fell into his trap [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]


-Jeff