1/2NL game at my B&M beatable? (Crown Casino, Melbourne, Australia) - Page 4

DonovanMD · #31 05-19-2007, 03:54 AM

You need to cut him some slack, I played in a game out in Perth, Western Australia at Burswood Casino where they took an ATROCIOUS $25 max rake up to 10%. And yet I beat it for 5 months while I was there, and I met a handful of pros I got to know and respect who showed me numbers and this 5/5 game with a 1k max buy in was being beaten for upwards of $80-$100 an hour for nearly a year. I know 10,000-15,000 hands doesnt seem like much when playing online, but thats a decent enough sample size. Also keep in mind at the time the idiots had no electrinic shufflers, and did all chips at the table, resulting in horribly slow games getting maybe only 20 hands an hour sometimes.

I think this has to do with them only having introduced HE to casinos a year before (this was last year at this time), at least in Perth. There smallest games were 10-20 limit and 5/5NL, with bigger ones running on the weekends, so the action was insane and although variance could be bad you always got paid on your big hands. 4-5X your buy in stacks on a 5/5 game in a few hours werent uncommon.

Anyway, just an example. Poker is different in different parts of the world, and in the last 3 years those are still the worst and most profitable games I've ever played in. But that rake is like getting [censored] in the ass.

westhoff · #32 05-19-2007, 12:34 PM

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You need to cut him some slack, I played in a game out in Perth, Western Australia at Burswood Casino where they took an ATROCIOUS $25 max rake up to 10%. And yet I beat it for 5 months while I was there, and I met a handful of pros I got to know and respect who showed me numbers and this 5/5 game with a 1k max buy in was being beaten for upwards of $80-$100 an hour for nearly a year. I know 10,000-15,000 hands doesnt seem like much when playing online, but thats a decent enough sample size. Also keep in mind at the time the idiots had no electrinic shufflers, and did all chips at the table, resulting in horribly slow games getting maybe only 20 hands an hour sometimes.

I think this has to do with them only having introduced HE to casinos a year before (this was last year at this time), at least in Perth. There smallest games were 10-20 limit and 5/5NL, with bigger ones running on the weekends, so the action was insane and although variance could be bad you always got paid on your big hands. 4-5X your buy in stacks on a 5/5 game in a few hours werent uncommon.

Anyway, just an example. Poker is different in different parts of the world, and in the last 3 years those are still the worst and most profitable games I've ever played in. But that rake is like getting [censored] in the ass.

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You're comparing a $25 rake in a 1000 buy-in to a $6 rake plus time charge in a $60 buy-in game? 6/60 is 10% and 25/1000 is 2.5%. The rake is 4 times higher in the 1/2NL game and that's without the time charge!!! I don't doubt that this 5/5 game you're talking about is beatable, but this 1/2 game with rake+time is like I said before NOT EVEN CLOSE!!!

DonovanMD · #33 05-19-2007, 06:18 PM

Fair enough, I agree that $60 buy in game is probably not beatable, but my point was more to say that the quality of play in Australian B&M casinos is that bad right now.

Josem · #34 05-20-2007, 03:57 AM

i have played 163 hours of 1/2 NL at crown, and have an average hourly win rate of $A16.72. the vast majority of this time is on weekends when the game is very soft, to put it mildly.

i believe it is beatable.

the only thing worse than the rake at australian casinos are the players at australian casinos.

AshtrayBroom · #35 05-20-2007, 06:43 AM

I still don't think it is a consistently beatable game over time. Indeed it is soft on the weekends, but quite often you get put in ridiculous spots by other players.

By the way Josem, carn the Hawks!

El_Hombre_Grande · #36 05-20-2007, 08:25 AM

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They must not be beating it for very much considering they've been grinding the same stakes for a year on a 'daily basis'...
Although you may have spoken to some players who have seen profits at this game when the house is taking 4 buyins of the table every hour you have to be constantly running pretty hot to beat this game for a decent amount of money.

FMA

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They actually are beating it for a large margin. My understanding is they are beating it for $40+ an hour from the figures they were telling me. Also it really is a game to hone in on your reads as many players are backwards player, betting there weak hands and slow playing there strong hands. To be succesful in this Limit you have to be very aware of your opponents and there style of play. I do agree that this game is hard to beat, and you have to be a well above average player to do this. That being said this game though is still 100% beatable in the logn run for a healthy profit.

MJR industries...

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I call BS. I play in very soft NL games live as well. Your enemy in this game is not the other players; I'm assuming the OP is one of the best players at the table as he suggests, and in fact I'll assume he has a large margin over many of his opponents. But in fact, his results are very consistent with what the math of the situation says and what the legion of gristled grinders who have been sitting at card tables since the dawn of time would say. The structure is absolutely unbeatable, it doesn't matter how bad your opponents are. Its that tiny cap combined with an outrageous rake/time charge. The cap puts a "governor" on how much you can possibly win on any given hand, and limits a quality players' edge, as turn and river decisions are trivalized. If this game is the only game in town, play on the internet to build up a game that is strong enough to get to a higher level.
Play in this one perhaps as a learning experience to figure out the nuances of live play and live fish, but realize that you will at best break even or so.

More importantly, realize that on these boards you will often be exposed to outlandish claims and bad advice.

Good Luck.

AshtrayBroom · #37 05-20-2007, 11:47 AM

Much appreciated El_Hombre_Grande. I'm actually friends with maxel100 in reality. We often argue about the 1/2NL game as you can see. No matter what I say, he will not agree with me :S

DanielC · #38 05-20-2007, 03:46 PM

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Australia in general rapes you with rake.

Star City in Sydney has 75c per person per hand for 5/10. So splitting the blinds makes the casino $7.50. That's over $200/hr as well, and since it's taken evenly from each player it hurts TAGs especially.

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Let us not forget Sky City in Auckland, New Zealand.

2/4 Limit HE - $1 per player per hand.
Yes, $10 per hand at 2/4 LHE.

reddog135 · #39 05-21-2007, 07:16 PM

the 1/2 NL game is unbeatable. i sat in it for 5 minutes before getting up after watching the first pot being raked. anyone who thinks this game is beatable is quite possibly mistaken.

mdntokr · #40 05-24-2007, 03:47 PM

Does anyone know what the rake and buy in is for this 2/3 NL game? Also, what's the next limit after 2/3 NL . . . 2/5? What's the rake and buy in like on those games? Also, anyone know the rake for the 5/10 fixed limit game? I was planning on a few month long poker vacation to Melbourne, but I didn't realize how absurd the 1/2 NL structure was. Maybe I'll have to find another exotic location to travel to with a nice cardroom.