44...Shall We Play Along?

[Chino987]

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I think I fold pre.

If you want to continue with this hand after the flop (you think UTG has ace high), you should raise to get those KQ/JT type of hands out. Combined they have alot of equity. You are in pretty good shape against two overs (who will call you're raise). I think you are done with the hand if an ace turns though.

[/ QUOTE ]

do you really think a raise accomplishes much here?

JT is still going to call it.

A 14/6 type is not going to call with a naked overs like KJ.

a flop raise will not be effective here imo. if it was a loose live game, then i would agree that a flop raise is the best play.

[James.]

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do you really think a raise accomplishes much here?



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yeah, if i'm going to continue i think the potsize dictates a raise to get it HU with UTG. he's doing nothing more than continuation betting and if i can get someone to fold hands that contain overs(that would be correct to call if i only call)or even a bigger pocket pair i will have accomplished quite a coup.

[ QUOTE ]
Flop(8.5sb): 7 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]8 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]2 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

bb checks, UTG+1 bets, i...

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so i raise, the tight passive button folds, the big blind folds and UTG+1 now 3bets...

[Grease]

How could folding be anything other than the correct decision? I really am looking foward to the rest of this playalong since it would have ended for me when I clicked the "fold" button and taken a drink of tea.

[Grease]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
table conditions? who's behind us?

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several loose, but mostly passive players. we will have other coldcallers.

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That may be true, but our relative position postflop will suck, not to mention our absolute position, and both of these factors, as well as well as the looming possibility of everyone folding behind us makes me want to chuck this hand in the muck even more.

[James.]

[ QUOTE ]
Unless you can get a substantial amount of dead money into the pot preflop, you cannot expect to play 44 profitably against this player w/o a school of fish to protect you.

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah Stu. i agree. going in i understood i had some bets to make up postflop given my status as an underdog to his range. as is stated, i expected a couple/several other coldcallers behind me based on the table texture and how other opponents had been playing. this was one of those times the fish decided to fold.

i'm at work right now and can't do it(and i was actually at work when initially posted this or i would have done it earlier), but later i'll try to post the stats for the entire lineup left to act behind me after the initial raise. maybe that will make the coldcall look less bad than it appears just based on the results alone.

on the flop: should i raise or fold?

[Chino987]

I think we have to fold now if we're 3 bet, even though we may have just gotten outplayed.

How tricky is villain? Against skilled opposition our raise/fold line is very exploitable and thus I dont particularly like to use it.

[DawnToDusk]

Call here and hope the pot gets multiway so we can win a big hand. UTG+1 raising range is fairly narrow and is something we should be looking for when we play big pots with sets. Other players coming along for the ride ensures the pot on the flop is big enough so we can build the pot up to the point where we can get our money in is fairly easy.

[B_Movie_Fan]

[ QUOTE ]
In order to make a cold call correct you have Know a few of things.

1. There will be 5+ players seeing the flop
2. There will not be any more raises behind you.
3. You will get plenty of action if you hit your set.

If you do not know those things with near certainty than this is a fold. What seperates the mediocre winning players from great winning players is how they define Know.

Stu

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This sums it up perfectly. I think that anything other than a preflop fold is -EV. How negative it is may be up for debate, but it's pretty impossible to be in this position with this hand at this table against this raiser and have any hope of making money by doing anything but folding.

[DawnToDusk]

I check behind here. I might fire against the BTN and UTG+1 if the BB wasn't there and try to pick up the pot. If I got called from one of them I would just shut down after that unless I improved on the turn. As for now I just check and hope the player behind me checks.

[James.]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Flop(8.5sb): 7 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]8 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]2 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

bb checks, UTG+1 bets, i...

[/ QUOTE ]

so i raise, the tight passive button folds, the big blind folds and UTG+1 now 3bets...

[/ QUOTE ]

i call the 3bet. i hate thinking people might start taking shots at me because i can fold for one small bet on the flop. so here we go, 2 to the turn.

Turn(7.25bb): 6 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

UTG+1 bets again, i...