The Dumbing Down of America

[NozeCandy]

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It's not just that we're not exposing kids to failure, we're actively training them to think that working hard is bad and it means you're stupid.

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This is very true; I know so many kids who think that there is a certain honor in doing no work and getting OK grades.

[man]

mason,

knowledge isn't brainpower, it's memory. when people had to work out problems without a guide it probably did make them smarter even if they came up with fewer answers. regardless I think brainpower is way less important having good work habits and learning to use resources when they're available.

[Howard Beale]

The public schools have caused the dumbing down of America more than any other single thing. I once read an article that had a high school test of some kind from the 1920's side by side w/ one from the 90's. I tried googling but couldn't find it. The difference was shocking. The grade schools students in China or Korea can run rings around America's when it comes to math and science and it's not even close.

[guids]

[ QUOTE ]
The public schools have caused the dumbing down of America more than any other single thing. I once read an article that had a high school test of some kind from the 1920's side by side w/ one from the 90's. I tried googling but couldn't find it. The difference was shocking. The grade schools students in China or Korea can run rings around America's when it comes to math and science and it's not even close.

[/ QUOTE ]


The teachers union has caused the dumbing down of America.

[Howard Beale]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The public schools have caused the dumbing down of America more than any other single thing. I once read an article that had a high school test of some kind from the 1920's side by side w/ one from the 90's. I tried googling but couldn't find it. The difference was shocking. The grade schools students in China or Korea can run rings around America's when it comes to math and science and it's not even close.

[/ QUOTE ]


The teachers union has caused the dumbing down of America.

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And who lets them get away with it?

IIRC, Thomas Sowell writes extensively on this topic. He points out that the teachers are now coming from the lower 1/2 or 1/3 (I can't remember) of college graduates and blames some of that on the pay scales. Parents are more to blame than anyone else, imo. The 'geniuses' that DO get thru our public schools are more than likely to be of Asian extraction. That is the parents' doing more than the kids'.

[guids]

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[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The public schools have caused the dumbing down of America more than any other single thing. I once read an article that had a high school test of some kind from the 1920's side by side w/ one from the 90's. I tried googling but couldn't find it. The difference was shocking. The grade schools students in China or Korea can run rings around America's when it comes to math and science and it's not even close.

[/ QUOTE ]


The teachers union has caused the dumbing down of America.

[/ QUOTE ]

And who lets them get away with it?

IIRC, Thomas Sowell writes extensively on this topic. He points out that the teachers are now coming from the lower 1/2 or 1/3 (I can't remember) of college graduates and blames some of that on the pay scales. Parents are more to blame than anyone else, imo. The 'geniuses' that DO get thru our public schools are more than likely to be of Asian extraction. That is the parents' doing more than the kids'.

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Who's to be blamed? The democrats...


seriously, I have no idea, nor do I care, I went to private school, my kids, if I ever have them will go to private school, so Im not all that concerned.

[Dids]

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[ QUOTE ]
The public schools have caused the dumbing down of America more than any other single thing. I once read an article that had a high school test of some kind from the 1920's side by side w/ one from the 90's. I tried googling but couldn't find it. The difference was shocking. The grade schools students in China or Korea can run rings around America's when it comes to math and science and it's not even close.

[/ QUOTE ]


The teachers union has caused the dumbing down of America.

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Explain?

I'm not at all convinced that America is dumbed down. There's more media, so we see more dumb [censored], but I would guess that on average people are better informed.

If you assume that something has gone wrong, and want to point a finger, I'd blame a system that has made teaching a fare less desireable position and simply won't attract our best and brightest.

[hobbes9324]

Agree with almost everything you wrote - but I'd be a bit careful about the high school dropout thing.

Back then, if you were a pain in the ass, disruptive, or just didn't feel like doing the work, you'd be held back a year, or you might be asked to leave - and if you decided to leave, noone came looking for you.

Those days are long gone. If you have a pulse, you're gonna pass. A high school diploma at one time meant the person who earned it could read, write, and do some math. Not any more......

In passing, if I see a patient over 8 in the ED who is bright, articulate, and respectful, I ask if they are home schooled. Most of the time, they are.....

MM MD

[samsonite2100]

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The thing that I've noticed, mostly because I've been trying to hire a few entry-level people, is the lack of writing skills caused by instant messaging and text messaging. College graduates can't write in full sentences any more, let alone use correct grammar.

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I think this is the correct answer. There's been a real deemphasis on grammar and composition in high school over the last few decades. I'm not sure what to attribute it to, but the internet, computers, and related technology seem like good guesses.

The fact is that a reasonably intelligent and somewhat educated person of our parents' generation is capable of organizing their thoughts in a logical paragraph. Kids at the (top tier) university I attend, by and large, cannot. I've read quite a few of their papers, and what passes for a B these days is pile of logical fallacies, garbled syntax, and grammatical errors.

Mason has made a lot of good points in this thread, and one might extend his arguments to cover this phenomenon--maybe compositional skills just aren't as important as they used to be. I'd argue, however, that marshalling your thoughts into a coherent group of sentences is closely related to logical ability, and the decline of our ability to do so as a society is kind of troubling.

[guids]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The public schools have caused the dumbing down of America more than any other single thing. I once read an article that had a high school test of some kind from the 1920's side by side w/ one from the 90's. I tried googling but couldn't find it. The difference was shocking. The grade schools students in China or Korea can run rings around America's when it comes to math and science and it's not even close.

[/ QUOTE ]


The teachers union has caused the dumbing down of America.

[/ QUOTE ]

Explain?

I'm not at all convinced that America is dumbed down. There's more media, so we see more dumb [censored], but I would guess that on average people are better informed.

If you assume that something has gone wrong, and want to point a finger, I'd blame a system that has made teaching a fare less desireable position and simply won't attract our best and brightest.

[/ QUOTE ]

http://dondodge.typepad.com/the_next...jobs_says.html

good article on what Im getting at.

The union officials and public school administrators are ridiculously corrupt. Public school admins get paid 6 figure salaries for basically doing nothing. Its a terrible system.


Unions are a bad thing, yes, at one point they were needed, but in the year 2007 they are doing nothing but hurting our economy, and making the select few rich.