challenge: try to describe a society more evil...

[Matt R.]

Hey vhawk,
Here is the part I disagree with: [ QUOTE ]
But thats not what its doing at all. The Bible is claiming that this is the Ultimate Standard of Good, and that this is how God expects you to live your life.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think this is true at all. The bible is a collection of stories written by a LOT of different people (inspired or not). Put it this way: I definitely do not understand the leap of saying "Person X wrote something, therefore X is their ultimate standard for goodness". Yes, I think SOME parts of the Bible are saying things like "this is how you should live your life." But just because it contains stories about times of war and those involved killed people, does not mean that the Bible is saying we should all become warmongers and kill the enemies' children. It's not an ethics textbook, nor a science textbook, nor a history textbook. Not every passage that the skeptics bible site quotes is an ethical guideline, but it appears they try really hard to make it seem that way.

Also, I like the tone of your posts much better (they're conducive to debate and discussion). Sorry about my previous posts, but I'm just messing with Phil because I think his attitude when posting on an internet message board is funny [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]. I understand how some may disagree with the Bible's message at times, but I don't think the scholarly journal of the lego people makes very good arguments.

[SNOWBALL]

[ QUOTE ]
I understand how some may disagree with the Bible's message at times, but I don't think the scholarly journal of the lego people makes very good arguments.


[/ QUOTE ]

actually it doesn't make ANY arguments. It's just direct quotations from the bible with some illustration...

Again, how can you possibly say "just because a story is written about person X doing bad things doesn't mean that the bible advocates doing bad things"


Here's another law in the bible "Deuteronomy 22:20
'But if the accusation is true and no evidence of the woman's virginity is shown, the woman must be taken to the door of her fathers house and stoned to death by the men of the town."

IT'S NOT A STORY IT'S A RULE. IT'S NOT A SPECIFIC INSTANCE. IT'S A GENERAL STATEMENT. Here are the rules for accusing your wife of being a whore

[Matt R.]

Snowball,
I was provided several citations. To understand why I didn't read every line of every single one (which is why NotReady does not respond to this type of crap either, no matter what you choose to believe), consider the following:

I respond by posting 8 links to Christian apologetics websites. You decide you don't want to dig through every detail to find out why I or NotReady do not think that the Bible supports genocide. You come back and say, "hey, I'm not reading all that. You didn't even provide an argument". I, or NotReady, says "well, clearly you haven't read the Bible and you are ignorant about all things religion therefore our arguments must be right." You say "wtf". Hilarity ensues.

I read parts of the citations. Not a single thing I read indicates that God directly mandates genocide. I'm not reading them all, sorry. What I DID read was something along the lines of "HEYYYY! Group so and so raped such and such!! God is evil b/c he thinks it's good!!" and some storyline about a lego set raping some guy's daughter. Oddly enough, I've never seen a serious theologian or religious philosopher use lego people in their arguments.

[arahant]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I understand how some may disagree with the Bible's message at times, but I don't think the scholarly journal of the lego people makes very good arguments.


[/ QUOTE ]

actually it doesn't make ANY arguments. It's just direct quotations from the bible with some illustration...

Again, how can you possibly say "just because a story is written about person X doing bad things doesn't mean that the bible advocates doing bad things"


Here's another law in the bible "Deuteronomy 22:20
'But if the accusation is true and no evidence of the woman's virginity is shown, the woman must be taken to the door of her fathers house and stoned to death by the men of the town."

IT'S NOT A STORY IT'S A RULE. IT'S NOT A SPECIFIC INSTANCE. IT'S A GENERAL STATEMENT. Here are the rules for accusing your wife of being a whore

[/ QUOTE ]

[censored] this is funny. I hadn't clicked on the links, but all the talk of 'lego people' finally got to me...what a [censored] riot.

[Matt R.]

Snowball,
I will take a different route to keep the thread interesting. So, you must like the Christian faith but hate the Jewish faith, am I right?

A big point in Jesus coming along was to do away with these old laws that Moses gave. He argued constantly with the Pharisees about this. Essentially, he said it is silly to follow the letter of the law so rigidly without taking into consideration mitigating factors. Then the Pharisees responded that it was blasphemy, etc. Jesus advocated thinking about the situation rather than following the laws you linked to a T.

So, since Jews do not believe Jesus was the son of God they do not believe the laws were ever "updated". Therefore they must follow these old, archaic laws given to them by Moses. Does this mean that the Jewish faith alone is silly? And, since Christians advocate Jesus' way of thinking rather than the old laws dictated by Moses, these arguments must have nothing to do with Christianity, right?

[SNOWBALL]

Matt R.

What WOULD convince you that god endorses acts of terrible murder as a general rule in response to offenses like adultery, apostasy, paganism, homosexuality etc. BESIDES direct bible quotations saying exactly that? You basically just respond every time saying

"Uhhh, I didn't read your sources [ummm, it's the bible. It's not "my source"] and I refuse under any circumstances to be convinced. Also, you atheists are RUDE!"

[Matt R.]

Snowball,
"Your" sources show snippets from the Bible. They do not give the full context. This is not hard to understand.

From your last post, with clever illustrations using legos: "If a man marries a woman and has sex with her... blah blah blah" Do you see how it does not say, "God advocates.... yadda yadda yadda... stoning her to death"? Deuteronomy starts out by saying Moses gave this law to the Israelites. The law that GOD gave to his people was the ten commandments. You have yet to provide a quote directly stating or implying that God advocates genocide or that rape is morally acceptable. You have shown quotes from the Bible indicating that there were laws back in the day dictated by Moses concerning how to deal with those who were raped, and obviously those laws are far different than those we have today. Different cultures, different rules. Since you are a moral absolutist, and these laws are morally repugnant in any day and age, what is the source of your morality? If you say it comes from yourself, then I say the people back then disagreed. See how that works?

I also don't think you atheists are rude (well, okay, you are sometimes). I just think it's funny how some of you spend your time studying a book when you have absolutely no interest in learning anything from it.

[vhawk01]

Incorrect about the 'no interest in learning anything about it.' We are just generally interested in learning different things than you, perhaps.

[yukoncpa]

[ QUOTE ]
since Christians advocate Jesus' way of thinking rather than the old laws dictated by Moses, these arguments must have nothing to do with Christianity, right?


[/ QUOTE ]

The old laws were dictated by God, through Moses. Jesus must have realized he made a mistake and came down to earth to update things.

[Matt R.]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
since Christians advocate Jesus' way of thinking rather than the old laws dictated by Moses, these arguments must have nothing to do with Christianity, right?


[/ QUOTE ]

The old laws were dictated by God, through Moses. Jesus must have realized he made a mistake and came down to earth to update things.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, at least God's flexible, right? [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]