Does the run count?

[legend42]

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That's crazy.
And really weird that this would happen just as we were discussing it here.

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The whole thing is weirder than weird, and I'm very interested to see how Selig rules on this one. One of my major pet peeves with fans and announcers is when they assume a subsequent action would have been the same regardless of the previous play's outcome (i.e. the "If Damon hadn't been caught stealing at third, that fly ball would have surely been deep enough to score him" kind of nonsense). Everything, particularly *THE SCORE OF THE GAME*, affects everything else- to what degree, who knows? But at least somewhat. I just don't think you can let this game stand.

Strangely (as of now at least) that game is the only one on the espn scoreboard that doesn't have a play-by-play log (other sites do have it, but just kind of odd).

[mo42nyy]

top this:
In college I had a coach who knew nothing about baseball.He would have us sacrifice bunt with a man on 2nd and 1 out down by 8 etc.
Anyway there was a game he benched me for throwing a helmut after i was caught stealing by about 30 feet ( I was by far the slowest guy on the team- we were down by 6 or 7, I refused to go for about 4 pitches and couldnt steal a base with a gun)
Anyway late in the game the other team has the bases loaded and no outs. Someone hits a routine pop up, which for some reason the umpire doesn't call the infield fly rule on. Our second basement drops the ball picks it up and has no idea what to do. The coach is yelling throw to second (the runners on 1st and 2nd stayed put, the kid on 3rd was almost home and the batter thought the IFR was called and was standing by home) I start screaming to throw to 3rd which he does. Then they throw to second for the 2nd out (force) and finally to first.
The other coach gets ejected for arguing that the IFR should have been called. Finally after all of the commotion the ump rules it is a triple play BUT THE RUN COUNTS. The worst call he could have made!!!!!!!
I ended up getting tossed from the game as well after this, so I was kicked out by my own coach and the umpire in the same game. Fun day.

[BobOjedaFan]

lol at this last story, lol that that the the appeal play thign actually happened, i was arguign it with my friends too glad i was proven right.

[BeatOnRiver]

just call me nostradamus, by the way my next question is, if i win the lotto in the next few days, what should i do with the money?

[chalk7]

does anyone remember the first year of inter-league play, this happened to end a game between the yankees and mets. 1st and 3rd with 1 out in the bottom of the 9th or 10th inning. brian mccrae fails to tag at first and paul o'neil throws to tino martinez for the double play. they were not going to count the run, but instead there was an appeal to the home plate umpire on whether tino had his foot on the bag (he had to really stretch for the throw). the hp umpire ruled he was off the bag, so if was a mute point.

the reason i remember this so clearly is that i had $1k bet on the yankees and was jumping up and down on the bed in my hotel room in las vegas thinking my wager had life. i have asked many people over the years about this situation and never could get a clear answer.

[BobOjedaFan]

Heres the inning it was actually the 2nd yr of interleague play....

METS 9TH: MENDOZA REPLACED HERNANDEZ (PITCHING); Baerga doubled
to first; Huskey out on a sacrifice bunt (pitcher to second)
[Baerga to third]; LEDEE REPLACED STRAWBERRY (PLAYING LF); McRae
was walked intentionally; LOPEZ BATTED FOR ORDONEZ; Lopez out on
a sacrifice fly to right [Baerga scored]; 1 R, 1 H, 0 E, 1 LOB.
Yankees 1, Mets 2.


If this is what happened then the run should have counted no matter what. Do you remember how deep the SF was, perhaps they would have had the supposed out at 1st before Baerga touched home plate?

[mo42nyy]

yea i thought baerga was involved in it
i remember unlike most players that baerga was husting his ass off to make it home (usually on deep fly balls these guys half ass it home)

[MicroBob]

Regarding the CLE/BAL situation:

I can't get over how they just kept meeting between half-innings for 3 straight innings and THEN came to a decision.
If it takes them a half-inning to figure out something might be screwed-up then that's fine. Slow down, think about it and talk about it. Perhaps put the run on the board retro-actively just a half-inning later.

But to stall like that and let the game keep going for 3 innings is just weird.

The instant they realize they have a problem (or the between-inning break they have this realization) they need to stop and figure it out even if it takes 20 minutes.

That was perhaps the biggest screw-up of all.
Realizing they had a problem and THEN just letting the game continue while taking little 2 minute breaks to try to figure out what to do about it.

[chalk7]

[ QUOTE ]
Heres the inning it was actually the 2nd yr of interleague play....

METS 9TH: MENDOZA REPLACED HERNANDEZ (PITCHING); Baerga doubled
to first; Huskey out on a sacrifice bunt (pitcher to second)
[Baerga to third]; LEDEE REPLACED STRAWBERRY (PLAYING LF); McRae
was walked intentionally; LOPEZ BATTED FOR ORDONEZ; Lopez out on
a sacrifice fly to right [Baerga scored]; 1 R, 1 H, 0 E, 1 LOB.
Yankees 1, Mets 2.


If this is what happened then the run should have counted no matter what. Do you remember how deep the SF was, perhaps they would have had the supposed out at 1st before Baerga touched home plate?

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yes, he scored before the double play, but the umps weren't allowing the run (just as the original call in the recent cle game) at the time, i thought it seemed like the correct call in comparing it to a force out double play, but now see i was wrong. like i said, they ended up calling mccrae safe at 1st anyways because of tino pulling off the bag. nice find on the inning.

[KJS]

[ QUOTE ]
Regarding the CLE/BAL situation:

I can't get over how they just kept meeting between half-innings for 3 straight innings and THEN came to a decision.
If it takes them a half-inning to figure out something might be screwed-up then that's fine. Slow down, think about it and talk about it. Perhaps put the run on the board retro-actively just a half-inning later.

But to stall like that and let the game keep going for 3 innings is just weird.

The instant they realize they have a problem (or the between-inning break they have this realization) they need to stop and figure it out even if it takes 20 minutes.

That was perhaps the biggest screw-up of all.
Realizing they had a problem and THEN just letting the game continue while taking little 2 minute breaks to try to figure out what to do about it.

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Eric Wedge made an important point about this after the game. He mentioned that his right to appeal the decision was taken away from him because the run was not counted right away. In his interpretation of the rules, if a pitch is made in the top of the next inning, the ruling on the field cannot be reversed. The run was not counted, he thought they would not get it, therefore he has no reason to argue. Once it is added innings later, it left him no choice but to protest the game since his chance to appeal the decision on the field was not re-invoked. They just said "run counts". VERY important note: the home plate umpire clearly signaled no run after the play in question, which combined with the non-addition of the run before play resumed indicated to Wedge it was no longer an issue.

Another thing that may come up in the protest hearings is whether the official scorer counted the run or not. The phone calls that resulted in the run being added were between the official scorer and the umpire. I am guessing the fact that the stadium scoreboard does not have the run up is not as important as whether the official scorer has the run in his book. But since the home plate umpire clearly signalled no run it is very much in question, in my mind, that the scorer would mark the run down as counting.

Could me more make-up games for the Indians. All these make-ups could really tax them later in the season.

KJS