Is It The Dog Breed Or The Owner?

[Blarg]

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It seems that most of the responses suggest that pitbulls tend to be great dogs, but require effort to get them there.

Are you saying that the need for such effort is a myth?

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Very perceptive.

Unless you're dealing with a dog that has been mistreated, you shouldn't have any problems. No more than you would have with any other dog.

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Pitbulls are not the only dog with what's sometimes called dog-aggression. Meaning, they're fine around people but can be a nightmare around other dogs, and sometimes other animals as well.

My mother shows dogs, and all her dogs are absolutely wonderful around the family. They are well-trained, one of them ranking very highly in competitive obedience trials and in agility, too. They sleep in the bedroom with her and are well-loved, wonderful dogs.

One of them must have a blanket over her cage when taken to dog shows, because it lunges at other dogs and just goes crazy sometimes when it sees one. None of the other dogs my family has ever had - and we used to own a petshop, a quarantine, and a kennel - was ever like this. They all were raised the same, very lovingly, a ton of attention, around other dogs, plenty of food, all the good things, you name it. Yet one is highly dog-aggressive.

This is a German Shepherd from Czechoslovakia. Like many of the German Shepherds bred in Germany, these dogs are bred to be working police dogs and guard dogs. Their physical health is exceptional compared to American-bred GS's, and they are very bright and trainable. But the dog-aggression is strong in many of those lines.

So yes, aggression can be heritable. And that includes pit bulls. Everything in life, and that includes our dogs, is not just all about whatever attitude we have or outlook we take. So be wary of opinions on things like these. They can be of very limited value or just plain wrong.

[thecincykiddo]

Blarg, you missed the context on this one. I was talking mostly about human-dog relations, but soon saw that he was talking about more.

I didn't bother to reiterate because it's more apparent in the thread.

[Colt McCoy]

The other thing about dogs temprament that's relevant is that dogs tend to inherit/learn their temprament from their dam unless you take them away when they're very, very young. Typically breeders breed dogs that have traits that they want. One reason they leave pups with the dam for 8+ weeks or so is to give the pups a chance to inherit that temprament. In some cases you might not want a pup that has learned the wrong temprament from its mother.

[Blarg]

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Cattle dogs aren't taught to herd. They do it naturally.

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Really? The Blue Merle is a very exceptionally smart kind of Australian Shepherd dog, and I've known several of them. We sent them all off to be trained, and then trained them more specifically again when they came back to the farm. They pick up pretty quick, but it's not like they're born herding, you know...

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Blue Merles aren't exceptionally smart types of Australian shepherds. They are just blue ones. The same litter will produce both merles and more solid colors, in blues and red/browns, and sometimes black. What on earth are you thinking of?

And herd dogs do herd naturally. They'll even do it with little kids sometimes. The poster you're referring to didn't specify that they were highly or completely or specially trained in some way; just that they herd naturally. And he was right.

[Blarg]

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I will also throw this out. Any guy who has to have a pit bull is just using it as a penis extension. I mean come on! There are SO many other kinds of dogs out there and SO many other dogs who need to be rescued. For gosh sake, if you have to have a dog, go to the pound and rescue a nice mutt. You have a far better chance of having a well behaved gentle dog that way than getting a pit bull!! Better yet, come on out by me and we'll go over to the Reservation and rescue one of the thousands of "Rez Mutts" who live on their own with no owner and no home.

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QFT

[thecincykiddo]

Lol. What I was thinking was that Autralian shepherd dogs are exceptionally smart. My confounded grammar...and I'm not even drinking [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

Blarg, looking at the larger picture, he was making an argument to support the natural born killer in pit bulls that stretched the truth enough that I felt the need to point it out. Instinct and being are not the same thing.

In this case, I probably should've also pointed out that being trained to fight is not the same as being trained to kill and that the correlary's a poor one.

[Colt McCoy]

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Any guy who has to have a pit bull is just using it as a penis extension. I mean come on! There are SO many other kinds of dogs out there and SO many other dogs who need to be rescued.

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Well maybe katy's friend needs a penis extension. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[Blarg]

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it's both.

[/ QUOTE ]Vey true one of my brothers was a dog trainer. Ironicaly he adopted a black lab/pitbull that had been mistreated. He worked with that dog for months "to get the mean out of her",as he said. She is now an obediant playful dog who doesn't have a mean bone in her body.

He claimed any dog can be trained with enough hard work and repitition no matter the breed.

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That's not terribly relevant though. How many people are either expert trainers who know how to do what needs to be done OR willing to work as long as it takes and with the necessary consistency? Really training dogs well takes both time and commitment -- as well as experience and understanding -- that is probably beyond most people. If anything, people should be especially wary to not get breeds that are very demanding until they have, as an adult, owned dogs before. Big fat challenges are not a great idea for most people by far.

Plus, your friend sounds more like he's flattering himself than anything else. Dogs are put to sleep all the time because both veterinarians and the legal system find some dogs just can't be fixed.

[RunDownHouse]

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Do you truly believe that viciousness can be inborn in a breed?

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Would you own a wolf?

b

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To be fair, this is like asking someone looking at cats if they'd adopt a tiger. Just because they're from the same family or order or whatever doesn't mean they're both domesticated animals.

[bernie]

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Do you truly believe that viciousness can be inborn in a breed?

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Would you own a wolf?

b

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To be fair, this is like asking someone looking at cats if they'd adopt a tiger. Just because they're from the same family or order or whatever doesn't mean they're both domesticated animals.

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True. But the point is, can a wolf be domesticated based solely on upbringing? What are the odds it's temperment would revert?

One minor point is that the size ratio/destruction factor of a cat to tiger is quite a bit different than a wolf to dog. Cat to bobcat might be closer.

Fwiw, I knew someone that had a dog that was 1/2 wolf. Even at 1/2 it was still very unpredictable.

b