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#32
05-29-2007, 04:19 AM
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Re: Open question to Stars about real-time adviser apps
Kyleb, have I ever told you what I think of you?
I would love to enlighten you now, but I'm affraid I can't, even Mike, who normally has a great deal of patience with me, couldn't justify not banning me for it. Why don't you go back to OOT? Where you belong, with the other losers.... 
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#33
06-01-2007, 05:57 AM
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Re: Open question to Stars about real-time adviser apps
juk, based on Stars FAQ, If the software can't be used to automatically push the buttons for you, its acceptable... whether you think it should be or not... at the moment.
And, as a smart player, you should expect that some of your opponents are using it (or similar software), at ALL sites.
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#34
06-24-2007, 09:21 PM
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And it gets worse...
To all those who said they were not worried about this type of application because "you have to enter a hand range for your opponents and the fish are bound to mess that up..." or "there is no way you will be able to alter the values while multi-tabling...", then I think you should read THIS:
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] d) wtf is the game theory range calculator that the site talks about if u pay 100 instead of 50. That doesn't mean it calculates opponents calling ranges for me does it? [/ QUOTE ] GT version adjusts oppponents call/push ranges by using game theory based approach. This method calculates optimal ranges (nash equilibrium) by using ICM and doesn't contain any precalculated results. Opponents on the SNGQuiz and Heads-Up trainer uses same algorithms to decide their moves. [/ QUOTE ] Juk [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
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#35
06-24-2007, 11:08 PM
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Re: Open question to Stars about real-time adviser apps
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] A bot that makes decitions and a program that tells you wich buttons to press real time are virtually the same thing. [/ QUOTE ] Wrong. A bot can play 1,234 tables at the same time while you're sleeping, working or having a candle light dinner. It's not a tool to help you play better - it's a malicious piece of software deviced to releave huge amounts of poker players of fractions of a percent of their EV - pretty much like the malicious piece of software employed some years ago by un-scrupulous arbitrage bank employees to siphon fractions of pennies from international financial transactions into their own accounts, building a wast forture in little time because of the enormous amount of transactions. A tool that helps you play better is a tool and not a bot, whether it's a pen and paper, a spreadsheet, SNGPT or what have you - because in the end it's not the machine player - you're the one that playing. [/ QUOTE ] What kind of software do you think a bot would use? They are the same thing, wether you are at the computer or not, the decisions are being made for you. If a program tells someone exactly what move is the best EV play, I could care less if the person is there to actually click the button or not. I don't like either situation but they are the same.
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#36
06-25-2007, 12:59 AM
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Re: Open question to Stars about real-time adviser apps
[ QUOTE ]
I think you are a smart spammer, nothing else. [/ QUOTE ] Juk is a very big contributor to the software forum. He is very knowledgeable on this type of thing. I have never seen him make or help make a program that would go against any sites rules, even though i'm sure he could. I don't think for one second it is his intention to spam for this product. He is just letting people know what they are up against if they play SNGs on Stars.
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#37
06-25-2007, 03:15 AM
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Re: Open question to Stars about real-time adviser apps
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] A bot that makes decitions and a program that tells you wich buttons to press real time are virtually the same thing. [/ QUOTE ] Wrong. A bot can play 1,234 tables at the same time while you're sleeping, working or having a candle light dinner. It's not a tool to help you play better - it's a malicious piece of software deviced to releave huge amounts of poker players of fractions of a percent of their EV - pretty much like the malicious piece of software employed some years ago by un-scrupulous arbitrage bank employees to siphon fractions of pennies from international financial transactions into their own accounts, building a wast forture in little time because of the enormous amount of transactions. A tool that helps you play better is a tool and not a bot, whether it's a pen and paper, a spreadsheet, SNGPT or what have you - because in the end it's not the machine player - you're the one that playing. [/ QUOTE ] What kind of software do you think a bot would use? They are the same thing, wether you are at the computer or not, the decisions are being made for you. If a program tells someone exactly what move is the best EV play, I could care less if the person is there to actually click the button or not. I don't like either situation but they are the same. [/ QUOTE ] They are nowhere near the same thing, fully automated bots are much worse. I have 5 computers in my house - give me a winning bot and I'll be running it on 60 tables. Give me a script where I have to manually act and the number of tables is about 12. And if I had a winning fully automated bot I'd probably be buying 10 more computers to run it on.
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#38
11-03-2007, 11:06 PM
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Re: And it gets worse...
Bumping this thread, to hopefully get people to think about the consequences of allowing game theoretic adviser applications.
If it's not fine to use these when playing HU LHE, then why the hell should it be fine to use them for SNGs? How about adviser applications for short-stacking? Are these fine too? I'm sure all the NL cash players would love an army of near perfect short-stackers... Juk [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
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#39
11-04-2007, 05:50 AM
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Re: And it gets worse...
[ QUOTE ]
How about adviser applications for short-stacking? Are these fine too? I'm sure all the NL cash players would love an army of near perfect short-stackers... Juk [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] [/ QUOTE ] I share your concerns and have stopped playing sitandgoes at stars a long time ago because pstars allows programs like SNGEGT. About the NLHE shortstackers: hook up this thing with some of that nifty 'screenscraping' stuff and that SNGEGT uses and some reasonable open- en callranges for opponents and you've got yourself a nice shortstack bot/'realtime advisor application'.
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#40
11-06-2007, 01:12 AM
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Re: And it gets worse...
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] How about adviser applications for short-stacking? Are these fine too? I'm sure all the NL cash players would love an army of near perfect short-stackers... Juk [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] [/ QUOTE ] I share your concerns and have stopped playing sitandgoes at stars a long time ago because pstars allows programs like SNGEGT. About the NLHE shortstackers: hook up this thing with some of that nifty 'screenscraping' stuff and that SNGEGT uses and some reasonable open- en callranges for opponents and you've got yourself a nice shortstack bot/'realtime advisor application'. [/ QUOTE ] I would have thought that limit ring games weren't tough enough already, but here is yet another realtime EV tool. I guess no representative from Stars is ever going to post in this thread, but perhaps you should at least consider re-thinking your policy on allowing these types of realtime EV analysis tools? Juk [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
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