I hate you coldcallers - Page 4

Proofrock · #31 04-24-2007, 03:38 PM

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getting called by 99 is not the end of the world It's actually +EV compared to c/fing because of our 10 outs twice and little less then half the time we have a 26k stack and ~55% of the time we are out.

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Yeah, but the point is (I think) that you're getting called here the *vast* majority of the time with 4 people in the pot, and when you do get called you have *at best* 10 outs (and really, even some of the hands you'd expect to fold, like AK won't fold because they'll think: I have 10 outs and I'm getting 2:1 -- sweet). In order for this to be good, you either have to fold out a fair number of better hands or get called by worse (which happens never). Even though you have good pot odds against much of Villains' calling range, you're drawing very slim against a fair portion of it too.

mlagoo · #32 04-24-2007, 03:39 PM

youre right that getting called by 99 is +ev, but i really think that is best case scenario. more often i reckon you got called by QQ-JJ which is pretty bad.

i think if youre going to bet the flop i would bet something like 5500, it looks stronger. and call a shove of course.

i really dont know what is best here between betting and c/f'ing. its close, i guess.

registrar · #33 04-24-2007, 03:44 PM

I really hated this and thought it was dumb the first time I read this thread but I find myself persuaded more and more than there is merit in at least considering this, which I wouldn't do.

#34 04-24-2007, 04:18 PM

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I really hated this and thought it was dumb the first time I read this thread but I find myself persuaded more and more than there is merit in at least considering this, which I wouldn't do.

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^^^^^^^^
applies to me also

shaundeeb · #35 04-24-2007, 04:19 PM

I think if any of the 3 have AK they are folding it 100% of the time on this flop. If they just flat called PF they were looking to flop an A/K before sticking their stack in there and they did not and thus will fold. Get into their minds don't put yourself in their spot.

#36 04-24-2007, 04:26 PM

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I think if any of the 3 have AK they are folding it 100% of the time on this flop. If they just flat called PF they were looking to flop an A/K before sticking their stack in there and they did not and thus will fold. Get into their minds don't put yourself in their spot.

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Agree that none are calling AK. The only one with the slightest chance of calling with it would be the last guy to act anyway.

Also, any of the cold-callers with QQ/KK likely would have 4-bet/shoved. AA 4-bet/shoves PF most of the time too, but occasionally gets tricky. So our revised range doesn't really make a push look that bad. I'd feel so much better about it if we AQ, but we don't. I guess if you have a good enough image, I think this could be a +EV play. [/me getting convinced]

shaundeeb · #37 04-24-2007, 04:30 PM

I think theres 0 chance last to act guy calls with AK with all that money in the pot. I think the fact we have AJ is better then AQ because like you said we can discount QQ+ from their ranges and with AJ JJ combos are less likley and thus their ranges are AQ and other unpaired hands and smaller pairs which are worried about me having a big pair and someone behind them having a bigger pair. Some of you guys who seem to think this is bad/spewy and will never work seem to be echoing the reasons why it's a good move and it will work more then enough times to be +EV.

#38 04-24-2007, 04:33 PM

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I think theres 0 chance last to act guy calls with AK with all that money in the pot.

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Meh. If the flop was 347, I'd agree. There has to be some small chance to last guy to act calls with AK, right? Depends on the buy-in, obv.

Good point about AJ, though.

I still agree with whoever said that leading for a standard c-bet planning to call any shove looks stronger.

hERESY · #39 04-24-2007, 04:37 PM

Concerning CO: He would have pushed PF with AK to pick up MP1's raise, but calling with 55/66/TT+.

Concerning SB: 2P or set... all calling.

wpr101 · #40 04-24-2007, 04:49 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I really hated this and thought it was dumb the first time I read this thread but I find myself persuaded more and more than there is merit in at least considering this, which I wouldn't do.

[/ QUOTE ]

^^^^^^^^
applies to me also

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Yeah this has been a pretty interesting post actually. I bet if a new person to the message board posted this people would be even worse in saying how much they hate this.