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#31
03-07-2007, 06:18 PM
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Re: Why you\'ll never be rich
Hawk,
I think we can assume beating the market on a risk adjusted basis for this discussion. Then again judging by the other responses... Maybe not [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] 
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#32
03-07-2007, 06:24 PM
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Re: Why you\'ll never be rich
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] I disagree... I think there are plenty of inefficiencies in the market, mostly in the small-caps, that can be exploited by a reasonably intelligent person doing the research and following a long-term strategy. I think it is absolutely true that most people can't beat the market through any strategy that involves excessive trading, though. [/ QUOTE ] How much is excessive? I averaged 4.2 trades per day the market was open in 2004. Was I unable to beat the market that year? Howabout IBG/Timber Hill? They're one side or the other of roughly 15% of all options trades executed world wide. Can they make money? Or are they trading excessively and thus doomed? Inquiring minds want to know! [/ QUOTE ] "...most people..."
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#34
03-07-2007, 07:17 PM
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Re: Why you\'ll never be rich
[ QUOTE ]
would someone define what "beating the market" literally means? [/ QUOTE ] People like to use benchmarks to define their success or lack there of, in the stock market. That is why people have moved to index funds to try to mirror what is thrown in there face every day. I for one believe that it is simply a way for someone uneducated to feel safe in knowing that they are doing what most people do. Beating the market to me means to getting expected returns with the least volitility. This is a hard variable to measure
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#35
03-07-2007, 07:36 PM
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Re: Why you\'ll never be rich
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] I disagree... I think there are plenty of inefficiencies in the market, mostly in the small-caps, that can be exploited by a reasonably intelligent person doing the research and following a long-term strategy. I think it is absolutely true that most people can't beat the market through any strategy that involves excessive trading, though. [/ QUOTE ] How much is excessive? I averaged 4.2 trades per day the market was open in 2004. Was I unable to beat the market that year? Howabout IBG/Timber Hill? They're one side or the other of roughly 15% of all options trades executed world wide. Can they make money? Or are they trading excessively and thus doomed? Inquiring minds want to know! [/ QUOTE ] "...most people..." [/ QUOTE ] IBG/Timber Hill is so much of the market (at least in options) that they might almost qualify for "most" all buy themselves [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] Also, "most people" have negative expectations relative to indexes for reasons that are easily remedied by education and changes in strategy. Are you saying the smart motivated ones should just give up rather than learning because learning is too hard? Or is your goal really to get the complete suckers to leave the market? If that's your goal, please stop tapping the aquarium sir.
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#36
03-07-2007, 08:32 PM
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Re: Why you\'ll never be rich
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Not True .. if you are smart, dilligent, and hustle. I have consistantly beaten the market 6 out of the last 8 years I have invested. I had a down years in 2001 and 2002. I have not beat by much, but have done well spreading out between tech and High Div. companies such as REITS. As was stated, however, I do not day trade, or do this for a living. I pretty much follow what was said about living frugaly, ect... My investing bankroll is tiny however (less than 20K) .. as I am middle class working stiff with a University Job. [/ QUOTE ] ahahaha, and brandi h. cashed in 3 out of 5 tourneys. You are both clealy pro material, ready to take the world by storm/ fly one day [/ QUOTE ] Ya I'll quit my job and get right on that ... maybe they are hiring more male dancers at The Rhino in Vegas [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]
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#37
03-07-2007, 08:39 PM
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Re: Why you\'ll never be rich
I don't know who IBG/Timber Hills is, but I assume they are a large securities firm.
What I meant to say is that I do not think most part-time individual investors/traders can consistently earn "S&P beating" returns making 4.2 trades a day.
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#38
03-07-2007, 08:52 PM
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Re: Why you\'ll never be rich
[ QUOTE ]
I don't know who IBG/Timber Hills is, but I assume they are a large securities firm. What I meant to say is that I do not think most part-time individual investors/traders can consistently earn "S&P beating" returns making 4.2 trades a day. [/ QUOTE ] who cares about most though? nobody should care about most people's abilities. they should care about their own. your statement whether true or false is worthless when discussing what someone should do. lets consider this argument: >50% of people fail to beat an index therefore there is a >50% chance i will fail therefore i should just invest in an index directly. this argument only draws upon the information gained from the initial premise. if thats the only source of information from which to make inferences regarding your own capabilities, then you have problems much worse than how to manage your portfolio.
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#39
03-07-2007, 10:08 PM
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Re: Why you\'ll never be rich
The irony is that a very small minority of highly disciplined traders help make markets more efficient by systematically identifying and exploiting quantifyable edges.
This means EMT and anti-EMT camps are both right.
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#40
03-07-2007, 11:36 PM
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Re: Why you\'ll never be rich
[ QUOTE ]
OP, just out of curiosity what compelled you to write this post? [/ QUOTE ] The retarded thread asking "how many hours of work/week does it take to beat the SP500", which showed a complete ignorance about how investing works.
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