50nl i NEVER fold kings...

[BobAllinSki]

nh, shame about the missclick on the flop.

I dont mind the preflop line but the reason for this is to get it in on most flops, and this is as dry as you get.

[Pokey]

I just want to reiterate a point made earlier: your preflop play is inconsistent with your flop play, and that's the biggest mistake you made in this hand.

Folding to the preflop three-bet against this opponent isn't a huge mistake -- I think you're probably giving up value, but only a few BBs on average, so it's not that big a deal. However, calling preflop and then playing for set value and folding to a c-bet on a dry-as-a-bone board is giving up far more value.

Make up your mind preflop: are you going to the felt on this one or not? If you're not willing to commit your stack on a safe board then fold preflop. If you ARE willing to commit, then realize that your smooth-call preflop is setting a trap, and CRAI that flop (and any other aceless flop). KK can be an incredibly profitable hand if played correctly, or it can be a frustrating and unprofitable hand if played badly. Part of playing it correctly is knowing when to get away from a hand. In this case I wouldn't have a big problem with you folding preflop, and I wouldn't have a any problem with you pushing the flop, but I'm very unhappy to see you play KK for set value at a price of over 10% of your effective stack. Had the preflop three-bet been a minraise, calling for set value would be +EV; at this price, you lose money in the long run by playing the way you did.

[Nuprin]

I agree folding against him - i've gotten in pf with him three times - all three he had AA or KK.

[Better Than U]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm pretty sure his PF 3bet range is wider than just AA......

Why not shove pre?

[/ QUOTE ]


i don't think it is.

edit: and ya know, even if it is, i'm +EV against this guy in the long run i can find a better spot than this WA/WB situation

[/ QUOTE ]
So why post this if you don't care what people think? It's pretty obvious by your attitude that you're right and we're all wrong.

[Better Than U]

[ QUOTE ]
I agree folding against him - i've gotten in pf with him three times - all three he had AA or KK.

[/ QUOTE ]
But does he 3bet wider than that? That is the real question here.

[Marshall28]

ummm, i was gonna respond, but then i saw pokey's post, and he already said everything i had to say.

[meleader2]

[ QUOTE ]
I just want to reiterate a point made earlier: your preflop play is inconsistent with your flop play, and that's the biggest mistake you made in this hand.

Folding to the preflop three-bet against this opponent isn't a huge mistake -- I think you're probably giving up value, but only a few BBs on average, so it's not that big a deal. However, calling preflop and then playing for set value and folding to a c-bet on a dry-as-a-bone board is giving up far more value.

Make up your mind preflop: are you going to the felt on this one or not? If you're not willing to commit your stack on a safe board then fold preflop. If you ARE willing to commit, then realize that your smooth-call preflop is setting a trap, and CRAI that flop (and any other aceless flop). KK can be an incredibly profitable hand if played correctly, or it can be a frustrating and unprofitable hand if played badly. Part of playing it correctly is knowing when to get away from a hand. In this case I wouldn't have a big problem with you folding preflop, and I wouldn't have a any problem with you pushing the flop, but I'm very unhappy to see you play KK for set value at a price of over 10% of your effective stack. Had the preflop three-bet been a minraise, calling for set value would be +EV; at this price, you lose money in the long run by playing the way you did.

[/ QUOTE ]

good points. i'll keep this in mind for when we're both ~2 buyins deep next time. i hadn't actually considered folding pre.

[Warteen]

Pokey is SUCH a genius.

Everything he said, especially about the inconsistent call/fold line. You screwed the pooch on this hand.

[matrix]

[ QUOTE ]
I just want to reiterate a point made earlier: your preflop play is inconsistent with your flop play, and that's the biggest mistake you made in this hand.

Folding to the preflop three-bet against this opponent isn't a huge mistake -- I think you're probably giving up value, but only a few BBs on average, so it's not that big a deal. However, calling preflop and then playing for set value and folding to a c-bet on a dry-as-a-bone board is giving up far more value.

Make up your mind preflop: are you going to the felt on this one or not? If you're not willing to commit your stack on a safe board then fold preflop. If you ARE willing to commit, then realize that your smooth-call preflop is setting a trap, and CRAI that flop (and any other aceless flop). KK can be an incredibly profitable hand if played correctly, or it can be a frustrating and unprofitable hand if played badly. Part of playing it correctly is knowing when to get away from a hand. In this case I wouldn't have a big problem with you folding preflop, and I wouldn't have a any problem with you pushing the flop, but I'm very unhappy to see you play KK for set value at a price of over 10% of your effective stack. Had the preflop three-bet been a minraise, calling for set value would be +EV; at this price, you lose money in the long run by playing the way you did.

[/ QUOTE ]

dammit pokey - I was about to write a long winded post about how this might well be a spot where folding KK pre was goot - and that pre/flop play is out of synch and you beat me to it.

I'll just quote yours again for extra emphasis.

[Thremp]

Note: Wild Bill has 4bet me with JJ and rode dirtay when I pushed Axs.

So he might be retarded.