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#32
02-03-2007, 02:41 AM
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Re: hell
[ QUOTE ]
here is my personal understanding of hell: 1. eternal? well although the bible references eternal suffering and seperation from God (2 Thes. 1:8-10, Jude 1:7, Luke 16:24, Matt. 25:30,46), i don't think ENTERNAL is to be taken literally. The reason is because one day God will destroy Satan, and then what happens to the people in hell? Maybe they are destroyed too, or maybe something else, i don't know. 2. suffering? well, it will be suffering, but a large part of that is because the absence of God (insert joke here). The gnashing of teeth, and the cries, etc, are because they are apart from God. 3. punishment? yes, there will be punishment, but the key here is that it will be BASED on their deeds as well as propotional to their deeds. See Acts 17:30-31,Rom. 2:1-11, Rev. 20:11-15 and Luke 12:47-49, Matt. 10:15, Matt. 11:24, Rev. 20:12-13. So whats my point ... basically that hell will be different for everyone. It could just be isolation, and time for you to reflect by yourself, dont really know. so there you have it, lots of i dont knows, but mostly because there is not A LOT of scripture about hell. also, i should point out that i am in the belief that God will rightly judge everyone, and that exceptions are often made for those who have failed to accept Jesus Christ but have extenuating circumstances (youth, not having heard the Gospel, mental illness, etc.). [/ QUOTE ] Its really pretty irrelevant whether there is actual fire and torture or whether the gnashing of teeth and cries are because of seperation from God. The point remains the same: Infinite punishment. 
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#33
02-03-2007, 02:46 AM
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Re: hell
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] here is my personal understanding of hell: 1. eternal? well although the bible references eternal suffering and seperation from God (2 Thes. 1:8-10, Jude 1:7, Luke 16:24, Matt. 25:30,46), i don't think ENTERNAL is to be taken literally. The reason is because one day God will destroy Satan, and then what happens to the people in hell? Maybe they are destroyed too, or maybe something else, i don't know. 2. suffering? well, it will be suffering, but a large part of that is because the absence of God (insert joke here). The gnashing of teeth, and the cries, etc, are because they are apart from God. 3. punishment? yes, there will be punishment, but the key here is that it will be BASED on their deeds as well as propotional to their deeds. See Acts 17:30-31,Rom. 2:1-11, Rev. 20:11-15 and Luke 12:47-49, Matt. 10:15, Matt. 11:24, Rev. 20:12-13. So whats my point ... basically that hell will be different for everyone. It could just be isolation, and time for you to reflect by yourself, dont really know. so there you have it, lots of i dont knows, but mostly because there is not A LOT of scripture about hell. also, i should point out that i am in the belief that God will rightly judge everyone, and that exceptions are often made for those who have failed to accept Jesus Christ but have extenuating circumstances (youth, not having heard the Gospel, mental illness, etc.). [/ QUOTE ] Its really pretty irrelevant whether there is actual fire and torture or whether the gnashing of teeth and cries are because of seperation from God. The point remains the same: Infinite punishment. [/ QUOTE ] Perhaps the correct outlook on such a thing is a place where punishment can be administered indefinitely or the place exists eternally. But, an individual's stay in such a place isn't necessarily eternal? I fail to see how such an interpretation couldn't be improved given that we have a better knowledge of timespans with increased sophistication of the mathematics behind the infinite and a better appreciation for long spans of time. Rare, brushed with olive oil and cayenne, if you please.
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#35
02-03-2007, 04:06 AM
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Re: hell
[ QUOTE ]
But, an individual's stay in such a place isn't necessarily eternal? I fail to see how such an interpretation couldn't be improved given that we have a better knowledge of timespans with increased sophistication of the mathematics behind the infinite and a better appreciation for long spans of time. [/ QUOTE ] There's the saying that the opposite of love is not hate but indifference. And I guess we could say that the opposite of life isn't death, but non-being. So it's not hard for me to make the leap and say the opposite of heaven isn't hell, but eternal non-existence. Although I think if we could look at eternal life as being a possibility and then seeing someone not choose it - it would appear as eternal hell or eternal damnation - a state of non-being you can't come back from. I don't know, but non-existence seems pretty permanent. But I guess we can't ignore the possibility that time curves back on itself or the presence of a wormhole or two in hell. I figure if we have an out, we can always suck-out on satan. Eventually.
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#36
02-03-2007, 04:37 AM
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Re: hell
[ QUOTE ]
So it's not hard for me to make the leap and say the opposite of heaven isn't hell, but eternal non-existence. Although I think if we could look at eternal life as being a possibility and then seeing someone not choose it - it would appear as eternal hell or eternal damnation - a state of non-being you can't come back from. [/ QUOTE ] Non-existence seems vastly preferable to eternally in the presence of a tyrant, and given what I see in the world, if it came about due to an intelligence, I am not able to judge that intelligence anything but tyrannical and worse, sadistic.
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#37
02-03-2007, 05:15 AM
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Re: hell
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] So it's not hard for me to make the leap and say the opposite of heaven isn't hell, but eternal non-existence. Although I think if we could look at eternal life as being a possibility and then seeing someone not choose it - it would appear as eternal hell or eternal damnation - a state of non-being you can't come back from. [/ QUOTE ] Non-existence seems vastly preferable to eternally in the presence of a tyrant, and given what I see in the world, if it came about due to an intelligence, I am not able to judge that intelligence anything but tyrannical and worse, sadistic. [/ QUOTE ] I doubt that "intelligence" is any more tyrannical and sadistic than the being you see when you look in the mirror. In fact I'd argue they're one and the same.
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#38
02-03-2007, 06:38 AM
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Re: hell
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I doubt that "intelligence" is any more tyrannical and sadistic than the being you see when you look in the mirror. In fact I'd argue they're one and the same. [/ QUOTE ] All the more reason to choose non-existence, presuming the same applies to you and everyone else.
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#39
02-03-2007, 06:50 AM
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Re: hell
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] I doubt that "intelligence" is any more tyrannical and sadistic than the being you see when you look in the mirror. In fact I'd argue they're one and the same. [/ QUOTE ] All the more reason to choose non-existence, presuming the same applies to you and everyone else. [/ QUOTE ] That's as should be. I mean, if you set a criteria that would allow existence to be voluntary. I agree for many people, infinite existence would end up being a sort of hell. That's not necessarily true of everybody. A lot of people take solace in eternal life. I fail to see the logic where they're concerned. "But it's paradise! You get to do what you like forever..." What if you get bored of it? <shrugs> You should at the very least always have the option to switch yourself off or decide to step aside from existence for long sums of time. What's to say you wouldn't find the interest and motivation to continue in 10,000 years?
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#40
02-03-2007, 06:56 AM
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Re: hell
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You should at the very least always have the option to switch yourself off or decide to step aside from existence for long sums of time. What's to say you wouldn't find the interest and motivation to continue in 10,000 years? [/ QUOTE ] Good point, and I have, and hopefully will, and have posted on this subject before. But 10,000 years of internet? Bleah! [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] ORLY? [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
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