Least Clutch

[jah7_fsu1]

Doesn't matter, A-Rod's numbers are comparable or better. A-Rod hasn't been huge, but he hasn't cost them any championships either. Seriously, no one dislikes him more than me, but I don't think he belongs on a "least clutch" list of all time at all.

[Thremp]

jah7,

Of course he does. WTF?

[Scary_Tiger]

[ QUOTE ]
Doesn't matter, A-Rod's numbers are comparable or better. A-Rod hasn't been huge, but he hasn't cost them any championships either. Seriously, no one dislikes him more than me, but I don't think he belongs on a "least clutch" list of all time at all.

[/ QUOTE ]

After A-Rod's 3rd inning HR to give Yankees a 2-0 lead in game 4 of the 2004 ALCS, he went 1-15 with 0 RBI as part of the biggest collapse in MLB history. Of course he belongs.

[pryor15]

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Why are people saying A-Rod? Seriously? Are we that clueless? He has a .305 lifetime playoff batting average as compared to Derek Jeter (playoff "god") .307. His clutch percentage (BA+SLG with runners in scoring/BA+SLG with runners not) is actually HIGHER than Jeter's. Listen, I hate A-rod, but putting him on a least clutch list is just plain stupid. Shame on anyone who said it. Again, assuming this is a "least clutch" list of all time, and not just "Yankee who you think should have done more in the last few postseasons list."

[/ QUOTE ]

2004 ALCS Game 4 1-5
2004 ALCS Game 5 0-4
2004 ALCS Game 6 1-4
2004 ALCS Game 7 0-4
2005 1st Round vs. Ana 2-15
2006 1st Round vs. Det 1-14

ARod Playoff Batting average since Yankees held 3-0 lead vs. Boston: .109, 46 AB, 13 K

Unless I'm missing something, his next base hit in a game where his team faces elimination will be the first of the career.

Fair or not, stuff like that is pretty damned hard to erase from public opinion.

[jah7_fsu1]

Funny you'd bring up that ALCS series. Are we putting Rivera on there since he gave up the tying home run in game 4 and the tying run in game 5? Dude is one of the most clutch players in MLB history, the entire Yankees team collapsed. Obviously, A-Rod didn't get it done, but neither did anyone else. I was just giving some numbers to suggest that in the postseason he hasn't been nearly as bad as people think. I wouldn't single him out for that collapse.

Game 4 Yankees score: 4 runs
Game 5: 4 runs
Game 6: 2 runs
Game 7: 3 runs in a blowout loss.

The offense that had been so strong in the previous games went to craps basically. I'm tired of defending him though, cause I dislike him. He wasn't clutch there, none of his teammates really were either.

[bottomset]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Doesn't matter, A-Rod's numbers are comparable or better. A-Rod hasn't been huge, but he hasn't cost them any championships either. Seriously, no one dislikes him more than me, but I don't think he belongs on a "least clutch" list of all time at all.

[/ QUOTE ]

After A-Rod's 3rd inning HR to give Yankees a 2-0 lead in game 4 of the 2004 ALCS, he went 1-15 with 0 RBI as part of the biggest collapse in MLB history. Of course he belongs.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think Jeter hit .190(or thereabouts) for that series

The list is apples and oranges.

It combines people/teams who make "ONE" major choke, and people/teams who have been shown to significantly underperform or underproduce at crucial times (i.e playoffs).

[pryor15]

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Funny you'd bring up that ALCS series. Are we putting Rivera on there since he gave up the tying home run in game 4 and the tying run in game 5? Dude is one of the most clutch players in MLB history, the entire Yankees team collapsed. Obviously, A-Rod didn't get it done, but neither did anyone else. I was just giving some numbers to suggest that in the postseason he hasn't been nearly as bad as people think. I wouldn't single him out for that collapse.

Game 4 Yankees score: 4 runs
Game 5: 4 runs
Game 6: 2 runs
Game 7: 3 runs in a blowout loss.

The offense that had been so strong in the previous games went to craps basically. I'm tired of defending him though, cause I dislike him. He wasn't clutch there, none of his teammates really were either.

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what you're missing is pretty fundamental:

What people remember is that Rivera and Jeter have previously come through in the clutch. No one expects a player to always come through in the clutch (well, except for Red Sox fans with Ortiz), so fans are willing to forgive a bad game, even a bad series, if a player has come up big a couple times before. sure, it's largely meaningless, but that's never stopped fans from focusing on it before.

so, Jeter and Rivera have, in the past, come up big when it matters most. we remember that (partly because Tim McCarver won't shut up about it). ARod has not. He's come through in some pretty big situations in, say, August on a west coast road trip, but he's never come through in a crucial situation where the whole world is watching and his team faces elimination, despite the fact he's had multiple opportunities.

it may take a Reggie Jackson moment for him to shake it.

[BigSoonerFan]

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The list is apples and oranges.

It combines people/teams who make "ONE" major choke, and people/teams who have been shown to significantly underperform or underproduce at crucial times (i.e playoffs).

[/ QUOTE ]

Well said.

Btw I nominate Michael Jordan. I mean that I guy could never knock anyone in with runners in scoring position!

[Scary_Tiger]

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Funny you'd bring up that ALCS series. Are we putting Rivera on there since he gave up the tying home run in game 4 and the tying run in game 5?

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No of course not. Rivera pitched fine in that series. He certainly didn't give up a home run in game 4.

Rivera 2004 ALCS : 5 G, 7 IP, 6 H, 1 ER, 2 BB, 6 K

That's about the same, with fewer pitches, as ALCS legend Keith Foulke:

Foulke 2004 ALCS : 5 G, 6 IP, 1 H, 0 ER, 6 BB, 6 K