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#31
01-26-2007, 03:17 AM
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Re: All of this christian bashing is so ignorant and stupid.
[ QUOTE ]
For one, there was that post earlier by John21 where he said that he believes the bible is a collection of fictional stories and that God is simply love and nothing more. He was jumped on and bashed for no reason. [/ QUOTE ] That is neither God nor a religion. And it CERTAINLY isn't Christianity. I'm talking about the basic idea of religion as is usually found as the first definition in the dictionary- a belief system based on an all powerful creator. Love would not qualify. NOTE: the header in this post does not attack people for attacking Love. [ QUOTE ] The interpretation that looks as those stories as metaphors . . . the only way that you can intelligently look at those stories. [/ QUOTE ] If you believe that Jesus is a metaphor... I believe most Christians would say you are NOT a Christian. And if you think the only way to view the Bible is as a metaphor... then the Christians would argue that you're bashing them as much as any other atheist. Matter of fact, if you think the entire Bible is a metaphor... you may be an atheist yourself. 
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#32
01-26-2007, 03:19 AM
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Re: All of this christian bashing is so ignorant and stupid.
[ QUOTE ]
By the way, you grossly misunderstand the Koran if you believe it says plainly that Muslims should kill all infidels. [/ QUOTE ] Sorry... meant to address this. I'm currently reading the End of Faith. Harris decided to print verbatim all of teh passages in the Koran that instruct Muslims to humiliate, subjugate, kill, torture, etc. any non-Muslims. It takes several pages (and its quite tedious) just to list all the passages. Its not an isolated quote here or there. PAGES of passages.
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#33
01-26-2007, 03:26 AM
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Re: All of this christian bashing is so ignorant and stupid.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] By the way, you grossly misunderstand the Koran if you believe it says plainly that Muslims should kill all infidels. [/ QUOTE ] Sorry... meant to address this. I'm currently reading the End of Faith. Harris decided to print verbatim all of teh passages in the Koran that instruct Muslims to humiliate, subjugate, kill, torture, etc. any non-Muslims. It takes several pages (and its quite tedious) just to list all the passages. Its not an isolated quote here or there. PAGES of passages. [/ QUOTE ] The 'talking points' are that the 'kill the infidels' directives are metaphorical bravado and the real meaning is "smother them with love". Now, if we can just get them to stop hugging themselves with explosives... luckyme
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#34
01-26-2007, 04:44 AM
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Re: All of this christian bashing is so ignorant and stupid.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] By the way, you grossly misunderstand the Koran if you believe it says plainly that Muslims should kill all infidels. [/ QUOTE ] Sorry... meant to address this. I'm currently reading the End of Faith. Harris decided to print verbatim all of teh passages in the Koran that instruct Muslims to humiliate, subjugate, kill, torture, etc. any non-Muslims. It takes several pages (and its quite tedious) just to list all the passages. Its not an isolated quote here or there. PAGES of passages. [/ QUOTE ] To be fair (and rest assured I'm no defender of Islam) most of those quotes occur in the context of retaliating against those who are oppressing Muslims. The problem is that "oppressing" can be taken to mean all kinds of things; one only has to publish cartoons of Mohammed to hear cries of "Help, help, we're being oppressed!" coming from the Arab world. And, of course, for the real fanatics, the conquest of the Caliphate is justification enough.
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#35
01-26-2007, 04:51 AM
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Re: All of this christian bashing is so ignorant and stupid.
[ QUOTE ]
That is neither God nor a religion. And it CERTAINLY isn't Christianity. I'm talking about the basic idea of religion as is usually found as the first definition in the dictionary- a belief system based on an all powerful creator. Love would not qualify. NOTE: the header in this post does not attack people for attacking Love. [/ QUOTE ] I don't know how you can claim this. Who says that you're not allowed to believe in whatever God you want and call it your religion? I can see why you would say that it's not Christianity, though. I suppose that could be up for debate depending on your definition of Christianity. I'm curious, would you call Mormons Christians? [ QUOTE ] If you believe that Jesus is a metaphor... I believe most Christians would say you are NOT a Christian. And if you think the only way to view the Bible is as a metaphor... then the Christians would argue that you're bashing them as much as any other atheist. Matter of fact, if you think the entire Bible is a metaphor... you may be an atheist yourself. [/ QUOTE ] I'm not a Christian and I never claimed to be. And I wasn't saying that Jesus himself was a metaphor necessarily, but that most of the stories in the bible must be taken metaphorically or else they are inconsistent with . . . well . . . reality.
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#36
01-26-2007, 04:55 AM
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Re: All of this christian bashing is so ignorant and stupid.
[ QUOTE ]
I'm not a Christian and I never claimed to be. And I wasn't saying that Jesus himself was a metaphor necessarily, but that most of the stories in the bible must be taken metaphorically or else they are inconsistent with . . . well . . . reality. [/ QUOTE ] *cough* [ QUOTE ] At a time when the public display and discourse about matters of faith have been under attack, a new poll indicates most Americans – 63 percent – believe the Bible is literally true and the Word of God. The survey taken Thursday and Friday by Rasmussen Reports found just 24 percent thinking otherwise. [/ QUOTE ]
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#37
01-26-2007, 04:55 AM
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Re: All of this christian bashing is so ignorant and stupid.
[ QUOTE ]
Sorry... meant to address this. I'm currently reading the End of Faith. Harris decided to print verbatim all of teh passages in the Koran that instruct Muslims to humiliate, subjugate, kill, torture, etc. any non-Muslims. It takes several pages (and its quite tedious) just to list all the passages. Its not an isolated quote here or there. PAGES of passages. [/ QUOTE ] These passages need to be interpreted within the context of the 'revelation'. They were revealed at a time when the followers of Muhammad were being attacked by the armies of Mecca who wanted to destroy them. These passages all come from the second half of Muhammad's life, after he and his followers had fled their oppressors and were beginning to defend themselves militarily. Harris also leaves out the hundreds of verses that teach things such as: It is not acceptable to kill women, children, clergymen, or rabbis in battle It is not acceptable to commit suicide Only fight against those who have agressed against you/oppresed you If your enemy wants peace, accept peace There is no coercion in religion From our modern perspective, the Quran calls for some rather barbaric things. But in the historical context of its development, it was actually very liberal. For example, the idea that a man can have four wives was actually a RESTRICTION on the Pre-Islamic Arab custom of having many more. Another example: the Quran specifies that if a husband dies, the wife gets a fraction of his wealth. This might not seem fair, but it replaces the previous notion that a wife should get NOTHING. This stuff all needs to be thought about in context.
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#38
01-26-2007, 05:01 AM
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Re: All of this christian bashing is so ignorant and stupid.
The problem is that context is useless if the book claims (as the Qu'ran does) to be the literal word of God, unchanging and true in all times and all contexts.
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#39
01-26-2007, 05:04 AM
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Re: All of this christian bashing is so ignorant and stupid.
[ QUOTE ]
Who says that you're not allowed to believe in whatever God you want and call it your religion? [/ QUOTE ] Ray ! You're Back !! If you said, "believe what you want" that would make sense. But even overused words have some meaning, however broad and to just pull a word out and smack it into a statement and then equivocate it with some other use ... cheeeesh. That's how we ended up with god being a ham sandwich a few weeks ago. I hope somebody can explain to me what the point of that is because I totally don't get it. ( I understand it in cases like Txg and NR, that's standard in cases like that, but why among those trying to have a useful conversation?). I tend to go the otherway and invent words or compound a few just to avoid any confusion with 'standard' usage. what gives? luckyme
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#40
01-26-2007, 05:34 AM
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Re: All of this christian bashing is so ignorant and stupid.
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If you don't hate someone who you consider to be the equivolent of a torturer who tortures and kills a man's family in front of him and then tortures and kills the man, then frankly, you're pathetic. [/ QUOTE ] This is how the Bible describes God and his followers. Sounds like you're joining in the bashing of these pathetic Christians. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]
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