77 Stars 320 Early---Flop Decision

[0evg0]

dude,

you are not the favorite to win the hand.

you're operating under incorrect logic.

and for the last time, forget the gigabet block [censored]. i dont give a [censored] about how many chips you have now. the only relevance stacks play here is in order to set up a line. and nowhere did i say shove outright. that's retarded. i said 3betshove which is wildly different.

can someone good please chime in here, i really think this is obnoxiously simple and BPA is just trying to be contrary

[MLG]

BPA,
you have a couple of problems with your line of thinking.

1. While you are a slight favorite to win the hand if your assumptions are correct, you are not enough of a favorite. If he folds the hand now, he will be making a mistake as the money in the pot would make it correct for him to call.

2. While you may be a favorite now. If you brick the turn (which you will the majority of the time) you are now a dog. So what's the plan then, after putting in 25% of the effective stacks on the flop.

[s0ballin]

i like a raise, calling seems like the worst option, and i think an overpair w/o a diamond is what you're facing
... so you have a lot of outs

Raise.

[hamnegger]

the check did get him info . he now knows he is either behind and has 14 outs against the overpair(more likely) or he is up against overcards flush draw meaning hes ahead but up against 14 outs. either way the guy probably isnt folding. so the question is do we want the variance of flipping a coin for a large sum of chips. if in a tourney with pros i gamble here but if im in a field where i feel im as good or a bit better than my overall opposition then i muck or flat call and fold on turn if i don't improve because i want to keep the pots small.

[0evg0]

we really need two forums

[Foucault]

[ QUOTE ]
we really need two forums

[/ QUOTE ]

Which one do you think you would belong in?

[yellowdoyle]

[ QUOTE ]
we really need two forums

[/ QUOTE ]

i came to class late, please go over this again.

[Cky3]

[ QUOTE ]
dude,

you are not the favorite to win the hand.

you're operating under incorrect logic.

and for the last time, forget the gigabet block [censored]. i dont give a [censored] about how many chips you have now. the only relevance stacks play here is in order to set up a line. and nowhere did i say shove outright. that's retarded. i said 3betshove which is wildly different.

can someone good please chime in here, i really think this is obnoxiously simple and BPA is just trying to be contrary

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm bad so i'm trying to learn here. You're saying you just put in a good sized raise then proceed? What do you mean 3 bet shove? Like he bets you raise he re-raises you shove? I could see raising the flop rather than calling. Calling allows him aggression and dosen't really gain information at all. It just will probably put an overcard or a diamond and will force you out of a +EV situation? A raise allows you to gain control and force him to make a decision? Especially since the overbet on the flop probably means overpair w/ no diamond? Is that what you're saying?

[0evg0]

3bet-shove means you bet, he reraises, you put in a 3rd bet all-in.

[Cky3]

[ QUOTE ]
3bet-shove means you bet, he reraises, you put in a 3rd bet all-in.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks. Was what the rest of what I said close to what you were talking about?