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#31
12-11-2006, 01:12 AM
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Re: Benevolent govt raises price of milk
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] but am I really to believe that consumption of alcohol really justifies the destabilization of 1920's era Chicago and other metropolitan areas, the massive diversion of resources into alcohol production and transport, and the absurd number of murders that are connected with the alcohol trade, as well as the very high street prices that drive thousands upon thousands of drinkers into utter destitution? [/ QUOTE ] FYP [/ QUOTE ] Uhh, do you actually believe that was a great bargain for society? [/ QUOTE ] Prohibition? Of course not. I hope you can see that the bad effects of drug prohibition and alcohol prohibition stem from the government's prohibition, not from the substance itself. 
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#32
12-11-2006, 01:20 AM
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Re: Benevolent govt raises price of milk
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] but am I really to believe that consumption of alcohol really justifies the destabilization of 1920's era Chicago and other metropolitan areas, the massive diversion of resources into alcohol production and transport, and the absurd number of murders that are connected with the alcohol trade, as well as the very high street prices that drive thousands upon thousands of drinkers into utter destitution? [/ QUOTE ] FYP [/ QUOTE ] Uhh, do you actually believe that was a great bargain for society? [/ QUOTE ] Prohibition? Of course not. I hope you can see that the bad effects of drug prohibition and alcohol prohibition stem from the government's prohibition, not from the substance itself. [/ QUOTE ] No, they actually stem from gangsters taking advantage of the supply shortage and absence of legal protection to establish violent rackets. Which is why I originally pointed out that an effectively policed, bad prohibition might be better than one that's circumvented by illegal means. But now, having been exposed to an insightful FYP (drug prohibition like alcohol prohibition!! Where's this man's Nobel?) and a very helpful picture of a [censored] unicorn, I see that that has no bearing on the present situation, and is probably definitionally false. My mistake.
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#33
12-11-2006, 01:22 AM
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Re: Benevolent govt raises price of milk
[ QUOTE ]
No, they actually stem from gangsters taking advantage of the supply shortage and absence of legal protection to establish violent rackets. [/ QUOTE ] And why is there a supply shortage?
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#34
12-11-2006, 01:24 AM
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Re: Benevolent govt raises price of milk
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] but am I really to believe that consumption of alcohol really justifies the destabilization of 1920's era Chicago and other metropolitan areas, the massive diversion of resources into alcohol production and transport, and the absurd number of murders that are connected with the alcohol trade, as well as the very high street prices that drive thousands upon thousands of drinkers into utter destitution? [/ QUOTE ] FYP [/ QUOTE ] Uhh, do you actually believe that was a great bargain for society? [/ QUOTE ] Prohibition? Of course not. I hope you can see that the bad effects of drug prohibition and alcohol prohibition stem from the government's prohibition, not from the substance itself. [/ QUOTE ] No, they actually stem from gangsters taking advantage of the supply shortage and absence of legal protection to establish violent rackets. Which is why I originally pointed out that an effectively policed, bad prohibition might be better than one that's circumvented by illegal means. But now, having been exposed to an insightful FYP (drug prohibition like alcohol prohibition!! Where's this man's Nobel?) and a very helpful picture of a [censored] unicorn, I see that that has no bearing on the present situation, and is probably definitionally false. My mistake. [/ QUOTE ] you present these two things as though they were somehow two different choices, when the reality is that they are one and the same thing. prohibition WILL be circumvented by the black market. supply follows demand. our government has been trying for forty years to make prohibition work and it has failed miserably. so your wish for "effective prohibition" is on par with wishing for unicorns.
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#35
12-11-2006, 01:33 AM
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Re: Benevolent govt raises price of milk
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] but am I really to believe that consumption of alcohol really justifies the destabilization of 1920's era Chicago and other metropolitan areas, the massive diversion of resources into alcohol production and transport, and the absurd number of murders that are connected with the alcohol trade, as well as the very high street prices that drive thousands upon thousands of drinkers into utter destitution? [/ QUOTE ] FYP [/ QUOTE ] Uhh, do you actually believe that was a great bargain for society? [/ QUOTE ] Prohibition? Of course not. I hope you can see that the bad effects of drug prohibition and alcohol prohibition stem from the government's prohibition, not from the substance itself. [/ QUOTE ] No, they actually stem from gangsters taking advantage of the supply shortage and absence of legal protection to establish violent rackets. Which is why I originally pointed out that an effectively policed, bad prohibition might be better than one that's circumvented by illegal means. But now, having been exposed to an insightful FYP (drug prohibition like alcohol prohibition!! Where's this man's Nobel?) and a very helpful picture of a [censored] unicorn, I see that that has no bearing on the present situation, and is probably definitionally false. My mistake. [/ QUOTE ] you present these two things as though they were somehow two different choices, when the reality is that they are one and the same thing. prohibition WILL be circumvented by the black market. supply follows demand. our government has been trying for forty years to make prohibition work and it has failed miserably. so your wish for "effective prohibition" is on par with wishing for unicorns. [/ QUOTE ] Do you even understand the purpose of a hypothetical? The actual possibility of prohibiting crack or DDT or bell-bottom pants is not relevant, even a little bit. The point was to compare an admittedly non-existent state of affairs to a real one and determine which was better. By analogy, we would then follow the same process in a real situation. It's quite a clever little trick, really. I feel a little guilty for allowing this thread to get derailed with all these pretty pictures, because I feel strongly that the government-established milk system is corrupt and profoundly stupid. I was just trying to point out that this specific story is a pretty predictable, even desirable result of the underlying evil. But why bother with that when we can have pretty drawrings?
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#36
12-11-2006, 01:34 AM
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Re: Benevolent govt raises price of milk
Wasn't an endorsement. Bobman was trying to set up a hierarchy of optimalness, not prove each option. Gold unicorn > silver unicorn > bronze unicorn for all I care.
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#37
12-11-2006, 03:40 AM
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Re: Benevolent govt raises price of milk
[ QUOTE ]
There are no underground milk rings [/ QUOTE ] Technically untrue. Excluding totally private sales of whole raw milk, there is are small scale commercial organic whole raw goats milk. The interesting thing is that since in almost all states unpasturized cows milk is banned, inspectors show up at these small farms and, using color of law, try to shut down the sale of goats milk. Since the farmers don't want the hassle, the government is usually successful in shutting down goat milk producers under the cows milk statutes, which is totally riduculous. The point is that this is what you would expect from a monopoly industry like the dairy industry.
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