Caesar's Palace- Player went all in and ran away with $ after I called

[Dynasty]

[ QUOTE ]
They declared the bet valid, and the call as well. What I expect is for that to be upheld. If it requires physical force, then yes, that is what I expect. People should be held responsible for their actions, and it doesn't always require going to court. The world we live in today is so afraid to do anything like this, but go back 100 years and this incident would have been finished and done 5 minutes after it started - with the offender paying his debt and being dismissed. He would have learned a lesson, with no need for criminal charges, and everyone moves on.

[/ QUOTE ]

100 years ago physical force would have indeed been used. But, it would have been used by the player who got robbed. Back then, the player wouldn't have stood around waiting for others to do his dirty work for him.

Still, you certainly did the right thing by letting Caesars Palace take care of the situation. I don't have detailed knowledge of the law but I'm guessing the Caesars Palace staff and security handled this they way they are trained to. You can expect them to use physical force to take money from the guy.

As for you comparison to the blackjack tables, it's not quite valid. In blackjack, the gambler has to put his money into the betting area. Your opponent never did that.

I'd hate to be the buy who got detained. If the Nevada Gaming Commission is hot to prosecute this guy, he's really screwed.

[Jimbo]

[ QUOTE ]
As for you comparison to the blackjack tables, it's not quite valid. In blackjack, the gambler has to put his money into the betting area. Your opponent never did that.


[/ QUOTE ]

Dynasty,

that is a very good point, I knew the comparison was flawed but couldn't put my finger on why, good catch.

Jimbo

[Witzo]

Did you at least get the chips he had on the table?
Also, I guess in the future you have to "slow roll" a little. Ask the dealer what the bet is to you to confirm the all-in and ask the person to put their money into the pot.
Seesm dirty to have to do this, but if there is going to be douchebags like this then it's going to be a necessary evil.

[pfapfap]

I wouldn't say it's dirty to confirm the bet. Hell, I always ask for clarification in my $20 home game when someone goes all-in. I'm sure the OP was excited at a huge payday, but it's an expensive lesson that it's best to wait for the chips to enter the pot, and for something like that to get confirmation before responding.

That does suck, tho', no argument here, but I'm not sure what else Caesar's could have done. The argument a few posts back that the pot belongs to them before it's pushed to a player is just silly.

PS - always protect your hand, too! [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[pig4bill]

[ QUOTE ]
25 years ago physical force would have indeed been used.

[/ QUOTE ]

FYP. But it would have been in the back room of Caesars. <sigh> I miss old-school Vegas sometimes.

Good dealers will make them push the chips before action goes to the next player. The first time I played NL I just waved my arms and said "All In" just like they do on the tv. The dealer just looked at me like I was a fool and said "Well, push them in!".

This case won't be hard to prosecute. It will be easy to find a jury that watches tv poker and will know what "all in" means.

[jjshabado]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You got robbed.

[/ QUOTE ]
Everyone keeps saying this and I don't understand it. The money is in the pot until the dealer pushes it which obviously didn't happen here. Seems to me the dealer (meaning the house) was robbed.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not quite. Remember their position is that they're renting the table and dealer. The rake belongs to them, the pot belongs to the game or the collective group of players, not the casino.

While I definitely agree the whole situation sucks for you, I can't think of a better way for the casino and gaming commission to handle this situation. I'm very impressed that they want to charge this guy and make an example of him.

I don't want casinos to have the right to take money from me just because a dealer or floor makes a ruling. Can you imagine the possibilities for underhanded dealings? I want the right to go to court and face an unbiased trial before having to turn over my money.

Now clearly in this case I wouldn't have welched on my bet, but you can't say some situations the casino can handle and others they can't. You have to have a system in place to handle all cases equally.

As for everybody that is saying how x # of years ago this wouldn't have happened because the casino (or the player getting screwed) would have taken care of the issue personally, how is that a good thing? Sure in this one case it would feel like justice was served, but like I said I'm not a fan of vigilanty justice.

[RR]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't want casinos to have the right to take money from me just because a dealer or floor makes a ruling. Can you imagine the possibilities for underhanded dealings? I want the right to go to court and face an unbiased trial before having to turn over my money.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is one of the reasons this story doesn't ring true. Failing to pay a bet is not a criminal act. If he had put money forward and then taken it back that would be a criminal act. The story has told by the OP just does not seem like it is likely to have occurred that way. Somethign like this seems liek it would find its way into a civil court, not a criminal court.

[RunDownHouse]

Randy,

In the thread in BBV, OP gives a listing/number for the Nevada Gaming Commission case, so he's definitely getting charged by them.

[RR]

[ QUOTE ]
Randy,

In the thread in BBV, OP gives a listing/number for the Nevada Gaming Commission case, so he's definitely getting charged by them.

[/ QUOTE ]

I saw that. I looked around a bit for someplace online to confirm that and haven't been able to find anything. As much as I don't like scum bags, I don't see a criminal offense here.

[pig4bill]

Read the thread again where numerous people said they heard him go all-in. Same as pushing physically. The money is no longer his to take just because it happens to be right in front of him.