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#31
10-20-2006, 09:44 AM
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Re: Moyers on America: \"The Net at Risk\"
[ QUOTE ]
It doesn't matter if you have the right to act in your own self-interest or not, you will act in your self-interest. You may think that net neutrality isn't in your best interest, and that is fine. But to confuse the isssue with forcing a barber to cut your hair is a strecth. It may make sense to make the arguement that the landscape of the internet has changed from text based to video based and net neutrality is no longer feasible or fair. However, A company certainly has the right to leave the internet if they don't want to agree to net neutrality terms. Not everyone wants to play by your lack of rules. [/ QUOTE ] A customer certainly has the right to leave the internet (or his particular provider) if he doesn't want to agree to non-neutrality. What "everyone" "wants" to "play by" is not really much of a concern unless we look at who these individuals are and what their rights are. The people who own the pipe have the right to direct its use. If you disagree, then I'm wondering who you think actually owns the pipe. [ QUOTE ] Unless of course you somehow think that the terms of net nuetrality are not voluntary, in that case ACist theory has a much bigger hole. No one is forcing anyone to be on the internet. [/ QUOTE ] Ah, the moorobot/propertarian "nobody is forced to pay taxes because nobody is forced to generate income, therefore some other party magically gains a legitimate right to take some of that income." You are not forced to buy a hamburger, so anytime you buy one you have to buy me one too. This is completely voluntary, because you can choose not to buy any hamburgers. [ QUOTE ] Anyone is free to go ahead and create a pipe that leads from nowhere to noplace, and charge what ever they want. [/ QUOTE ] They are also free to create a pipe that leads from A to B and charge whatever they want. And you are free not to buy access to that. [ QUOTE ] You may ask why is this net neutrality better? Net neutrality forces free market competition. [/ QUOTE ] No, it forces competition on terms you prefer. [ QUOTE ] It gives consumers the choice on what products they wish to utilize, as opposed to giving interent providers the choice. If I want to use my google provided internet to purcahse from microsoft, well that's my right. [/ QUOTE ] Is it? A bona fide *right*?? What did you buy when you bought "google provided internet"? Did you read the terms? [ QUOTE ] Net neutrality is the epitome of all the ideas you have be touting on the internet for years now. Individual liberty, and free markets. The exception being that it is only limited government and not no government. [/ QUOTE ] Free markets, where people can dictate to other people the terms of the sale. 
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#32
10-20-2006, 09:54 AM
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Re: Moyers on America: \"The Net at Risk\"
[ QUOTE ]
You are not forced to buy a hamburger, so anytime you buy one you have to buy me one too. This is completely voluntary, because you can choose not to buy any hamburgers. [/ QUOTE ] Yes this is the argeuement, that when I buy a hanmburger from you, I must also buy my cheeseburgers, and pizza and salads from you. Even stuff that is completly unrelated to what you sold me. [ QUOTE ] No, it forces competition on terms you prefer. [/ QUOTE ] Yes the free kind. [ QUOTE ] What did you buy when you bought "google provided internet"? Did you read the terms? [/ QUOTE ] Uneforcable fraud?? [ QUOTE ] Free markets, where people can dictate to other people the terms of the sale. [/ QUOTE ] Doesn't sound very free to me.
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#33
10-20-2006, 10:44 AM
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Re: Moyers on America: \"The Net at Risk\"
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] If tomorrow the owner of the pipe for all ISPs in your area made it so the only news website you could access is foxnews.com, would you be fine with that? [/ QUOTE ] I wouldn't like it, but I have no right to force them to provide what I want any more than you have a right to force your barber to cut your hair. [/ QUOTE ] This is ridiculous. There are tons of regulated industries. These restrictions are in place to prevent monopolies. There are enough barbers around, that one charging $100 for a haircut will soon be out of business. There is no such incentive for a telecom company, who is the only game in town in many areas. I am quite surprised that there are this many people arguing against net neutrality. This would effectively end the free internet as we know it. I guess to a lot of Republicans, that is a small price to pay to increase the profits of these big telecom companies. If you have a better argument than "They can charge what they want", I would like to hear it.
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#34
10-20-2006, 10:53 AM
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Re: Moyers on America: \"The Net at Risk\"
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] You are not forced to buy a hamburger, so anytime you buy one you have to buy me one too. This is completely voluntary, because you can choose not to buy any hamburgers. [/ QUOTE ] Yes this is the argeuement, that when I buy a hanmburger from you, I must also buy my cheeseburgers, and pizza and salads from you. Even stuff that is completly unrelated to what you sold me. [ QUOTE ] No, it forces competition on terms you prefer. [/ QUOTE ] Yes the free kind. [ QUOTE ] What did you buy when you bought "google provided internet"? Did you read the terms? [/ QUOTE ] Uneforcable fraud?? [ QUOTE ] Free markets, where people can dictate to other people the terms of the sale. [/ QUOTE ] Doesn't sound very free to me. [/ QUOTE ] So now you agree with me?
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#35
10-20-2006, 10:55 AM
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Re: Moyers on America: \"The Net at Risk\"
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] If tomorrow the owner of the pipe for all ISPs in your area made it so the only news website you could access is foxnews.com, would you be fine with that? [/ QUOTE ] I wouldn't like it, but I have no right to force them to provide what I want any more than you have a right to force your barber to cut your hair. [/ QUOTE ] This is ridiculous. There are tons of regulated industries. [/ QUOTE ] There are lots of murders. Therefore, it must be OK, or even good, to murder people. [ QUOTE ] These restrictions are in place to prevent monopolies. [/ QUOTE ] Monopolies are created BY restrictions. Adding more restrictions to undo the damage just does more damage. [ QUOTE ] There are enough barbers around, that one charging $100 for a haircut will soon be out of business. There is no such incentive for a telecom company, who is the only game in town in many areas. [/ QUOTE ] And why is a telco the only game in town in many areas? Because of regulation.
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#36
10-20-2006, 11:00 AM
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Re: Moyers on America: \"The Net at Risk\"
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] You are not forced to buy a hamburger, so anytime you buy one you have to buy me one too. This is completely voluntary, because you can choose not to buy any hamburgers. [/ QUOTE ] Yes this is the argeuement, that when I buy a hanmburger from you, I must also buy my cheeseburgers, and pizza and salads from you. Even stuff that is completly unrelated to what you sold me. [ QUOTE ] No, it forces competition on terms you prefer. [/ QUOTE ] Yes the free kind. [ QUOTE ] What did you buy when you bought "google provided internet"? Did you read the terms? [/ QUOTE ] Uneforcable fraud?? [ QUOTE ] Free markets, where people can dictate to other people the terms of the sale. [/ QUOTE ] Doesn't sound very free to me. [/ QUOTE ] So now you agree with me? [/ QUOTE ]Everything but your conclusion, and the correctness of your methaphors.
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