Where are all the Libertarians?

[DVaut1]

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I think it's a rather large problem for the viability of the libertarian movement that it seemingly has no appeal to 50% of the population.


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I've known a couple who self-identified as libertarian, but one switched back, and the other isn't really a libertarian, but more of an anarchist.

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I was hoping to avoid the "...but I know this libertarian chick!" type responses by conceding there are libertarian women.

Because there undoubtedly are some. Tens of thousands, if not more. But in a country of 300 million, they're not significant. The survey evidence is rather clear -- there just aren't a whole lot of libertarian women. I think the obvious question is "why not?"

[iron81]

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However, if they continue to study it, they almost always come to the (correct) conclusions that voting is both irrational and immoral and cease to vote.

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Don't follow.

If I could vote from home I would (and would vote Libertarian), but I'm pretty lazy.

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You'd probably be interested in this thread.

[jogger08152]

Just a guess: the republican is usually "less bad enough", compared to the democrat, and the libertarian candidate so hopeless (unfortunately), that libertarians end up voting for the lesser evil. That's what I (thought I) did in 2000. (I now think it's at least somewhat likely I was wrong, alas.)

[Brainwalter]

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I think it's a rather large problem for the viability of the libertarian movement that it seemingly has no appeal to 50% of the population.


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I've known a couple who self-identified as libertarian, but one switched back, and the other isn't really a libertarian, but more of an anarchist.

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I was hoping to avoid the "...but I know this libertarian chick!" type responses by conceding there are libertarian women.

Because there undoubtedly are some. Tens of thousands, if not more. But in a country of 300 million, they're not significant. The survey evidence is rather clear -- there just aren't a whole lot of libertarian women. I think the obvious question is "why not?"

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On an entirely anecdotal note, I just searched for Libertarians at my college on Facebook, and of the first 100, 24 were female. So I'm not sure I buy your premise, maybe yo could link the study you mentioned.

Edit: There are 130 females and 349 males in total. And 40 of the females are single! [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[MrMon]

Many, many, many years ago, I recall reading a history of the early Libertarian party and how is basically divided into two camps, roughly the Randians/Objectivists, and the Anarcho-Isolationists. The Anarcho-Isolationists won control of the party, which the article pointed out pretty much doomed it at the time. It might have some appeal today among the more left-leaning libertarians or even the paleo-conservatives, and certainly attracts your average college age idealists, but the take-no-prisoners attitude of internet posters is certainly a turn-off for those who might be attracted to the party.

If you get by the bad recruiting campaign, those intrigued by the ideas are either turned off by one of two things: free-marketers are turned off by the isolationist foreign policy or anti-war types are turned off by the Wild West capitalism. Since your left-leaning libertarian often tends to drift off towards some socialist or anarchist camp, that leaves the free-marketers, who simply won't buy into the foreign policy. They may trust Libertarians of a local basis, but they're not about to turn the national government over to them.

American politics has a long history of the two major parties absorbing the ideas of the minor parties. That's pretty much the fate of the Libertarians, like it or not, with most of the ideas being absorbed by the Republicans, once the purge of the neo-cons commences.

[niss]

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I think it's a rather large problem for the viability of the libertarian movement that it seemingly has no appeal to 50% of the population.


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I've known a couple who self-identified as libertarian, but one switched back, and the other isn't really a libertarian, but more of an anarchist.

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I was hoping to avoid the "...but I know this libertarian chick!" type responses by conceding there are libertarian women.

Because there undoubtedly are some. Tens of thousands, if not more. But in a country of 300 million, they're not significant. The survey evidence is rather clear -- there just aren't a whole lot of libertarian women. I think the obvious question is "why not?"

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On an entirely anecdotal note, I just searched for Libertarians at my college on Facebook, and of the first 100, 24 were female. So I'm not sure I buy your premise, maybe yo could link the study you mentioned.

Edit: There are 130 females and 349 males in total. And 40 of the females are single! [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

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Clearly they thought it said "librarian".

[clowntable]

Some of those people who are part of the discussion might not even be allowed to vote.

[Kaj]

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free-marketers are turned off by the isolationist foreign policy

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Non-interventionist != Isolationist

A party platform for open borders and no tariffs is not isolationist. And any free-marketer who is turned off because the party doesn't advocate the use of a massive govt to force other nations to submit to its wishes is not a free-marketer.

[dmisfh1]

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Iron81,

This is a good question. Here are my thoughts (and I do not claim to know which of several effects is "the" dominant reason, or even whether I have discovered the dominant reason in my little list).

A) A lot of people who call themselves libertarians come from groups with traditionally low voter turnout in the first place, like college students.

B) Many people who are interested in political economy gravitate towards libertarianism if they are exposed to it, but government licensed media is usually extremely careful to exclude Libertarians from any debate, and goverment education institutions avoid exposing students to libertarian ideas. There is a reason the libertarians are always excluded from debates; their poll numbers would jump immediately by an order of magnitude.

C) Still, people do discover libertarianism and gravitate to it often if they take the time to study it. This may leave them voting libertarian, or even running for some local office for some period of time."

Everything up to that point = OK.

"However, if they continue to study it, they almost always come to the (correct) conclusions that voting is both irrational and immoral and cease to vote."

No.

If this is what you claim, however, then please explain. If you have already explained in previous threads, linky please.

"Any would-be libertarian who is not smart enough to eventually figure out that voting is irrational and moral will likely fall victim to the (fallacious) "wasted vote" and "lesser of two evils" arguments and still be voting republicrat anyway."

Wrong.

I do not fall into either of those categories. And I know a relatively significant amount of others who dont either.

"This leaves a relatively small number of libertarians who actually vote libertarian."

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So I guess my friends and I are simply part of this relatively small number?

[iron81]

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So I guess my friends and I are simply part of this relatively small number?

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Unless you met your friends though some sort of libertarian oriented club, I don't believe you. Young people don't vote very much as is and add to the parlay the 1% of votes that Libertarians get.