I don't understand how torture works AT ALL

[kurto]

I didn't say you said all fraternities. i pointed out that some haze by having their rushees chug beers.

I also pointed out that many frats do what clearly would be torture (and are criminals)

So, your analogy was kind of wishy washy.

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The closest I came to saying it's okay, (as you put it) was to say that many of us disagree about what is/isn't torture.

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Somehow I'm betting that all the people trying to excuse torture and give 'the rose another name' would agree it was torture if it was done to them or their loved ones.

These last couple of years have been interesting. Neocons and bush apologists defend all sorts of weird things.

[vulturesrow]

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tying the victim to a board with the head lower than the feet so that he or she is unable to move. A piece of cloth is held tightly over the face, and water is poured onto the cloth. Breathing is extremely difficult and the victim will be in fear of imminent death by asphyxiation.

How is this not torture?

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In case you werent aware, we use this method on our own aviators duringer Survival, Evasion, Resistance and Escape (SERE) training. While I didnt get waterboarded personally, several of my friends did. Yeah it sucks but it does no permanent harm and the chances of actually killing someone by doing this are infinitesimal, and has proven to be effective.

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Vulture,

By effective, do you mean getting reliable information, or do you mean getting someone to sign/say anything?

I'm assuming you got the smokety-smoke as well.

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Well certainly a little of both, people react differently. But you know as well as I do that real point of the interrogation isnt to "hurt you 'til you break'. It is to put you in a state of mind where you can be highly vulnerable to suggestion and manipulation, where you easily make mistakes that can be exploited by the captors.

Smokety-smoke isnt ringing a bell though. [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

[Mickey Brausch]

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The Brits may be smart, but I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for Al Queda or their sympathizers 'turning' during this present war of civilizations.

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Torture clearly does work. If an innocent is tortured it is not a problem with torture but rather a problem with finding who is guilty.

[/ QUOTE ][sigh]

[Mickey Brausch]

Check this out. Here is how the U.S. is screwing up. Where the U.S. Army sees a potential insurgent sympathizer, others, more smart, would see a potential recruit. It's as if I ordered this news item:

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CNN
Bilal Hussein, an Iraqi photographer who helped the Associated Press win a Pulitzer Prize last year, is now in his sixth month in a U.S. Army prison in Iraq. He doesn't understand why he's there, and neither do his AP colleagues.

The Army says it thinks Bilal has too many contacts among insurgents. He has taken pictures the Army thinks could have been made only with the connivance of insurgents. So Bilal himself must be one, too, or at least a sympathizer.


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An Iraqi who has the trust of the Iraqi insurgents and is allowed to roam around them and deep inside their hide outs? Hmm, let's arrest him and stop him from doing that!

Way to go.

Mickey Brausch

[Mickey Brausch]

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CNN
Pham Xuan An led a remarkable and perilous double life as a communist spy and a respected reporter for western news organizations during the Vietnam War.
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An, 79, who suffered from emphysema, died at a military hospital Wednesday in Ho Chi Minh City, his son, Pham Xuan Hoang An, told The Associated Press. He had lived in the city, formerly known as Saigon, since South Vietnam fell to North Vietnamese forces on April 30, 1975.
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In the history of wartime espionage, few were as successful as An. He straddled two worlds for most of the 15-year war in Indochina as an undercover communist agent while also working as a journalist, first for Reuters news service and later for 10 years as Time magazine's chief Vietnamese reporter -- a role that gave him access to military bases and background briefings.
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He was so well known for his sources and insight that many Americans who knew him suspected he worked for the CIA.


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[Eagles]

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The Brits may be smart, but I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for Al Queda or their sympathizers 'turning' during this present war of civilizations.

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Torture clearly does work. If an innocent is tortured it is not a problem with torture but rather a problem with finding who is guilty.

[/ QUOTE ][sigh]

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Well You certainly proved me wrong.