wow we're [censored] DEEP - Page 4

MDMA · #31 09-06-2006, 09:58 AM

Wow c'mon guys, stuff like [ QUOTE ]
MP is obviously calling with any cards he raised with, and if he's any good, he's probably floating the flop too

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Is just ENORMOUS spew. Wow, does having these deep stacks give like people a license to think they will stack anyone enough with ANY hand in position enough to justify their preflop-call? If you are playing a total DONK perhaps, but against a good player you are going to be bleeding chips worse than Eli Elezra if you think this is the correct way of playing. You think you will NEVER pay of anything when you called a 3-bet with KQ and just hit a K or Q? You think you can play to hit top two or a straight each and every [censored] time and make the call preflop reasonable just becauese of that? WRONG. We are STILL playing the same stakes, the SMALL POTS still matters a LOT, no matter what kind of stacks we have.

hit_the_set · #32 09-06-2006, 12:51 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
lol ur a pussy

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you're missing the point

edit: also, i used to be one of the lighter 3bettors on party so if you think that i'm afraid to put money into the put it's just lol. i am experimenting with hardly ever 3betting right now and it feels promising. it's an overrated move.

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Are you saying you don't three bet at all? I will give you my reasons for 3-betting. You are out of position against someone you perceive to be a good player. You have a strong hand and very often you will take it down preflop or with a continuation bet.

Are you cold calling with aces also in this spot? or kings FWIW...

Triumph36 · #33 09-06-2006, 01:35 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Wow c'mon guys, stuff like [ QUOTE ]
MP is obviously calling with any cards he raised with, and if he's any good, he's probably floating the flop too

[/ QUOTE ]

Is just ENORMOUS spew. Wow, does having these deep stacks give like people a license to think they will stack anyone enough with ANY hand in position enough to justify their preflop-call? If you are playing a total DONK perhaps, but against a good player you are going to be bleeding chips worse than Eli Elezra if you think this is the correct way of playing. You think you will NEVER pay of anything when you called a 3-bet with KQ and just hit a K or Q? You think you can play to hit top two or a straight each and every [censored] time and make the call preflop reasonable just becauese of that? WRONG. We are STILL playing the same stakes, the SMALL POTS still matters a LOT, no matter what kind of stacks we have.

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I don't see what that matters. It's not about hitting a hand - it's knowing that your opponent needs more than one pair to continue most of the time. Is klonpucko really putting in 300 BBs with AA UI, for example? Is he firing 2 barrels with AA?

Basically a lot of the time he will whiff the flop with AKs and continuing will be very difficult because Villain may bet him off the best hand much more often than you think. If he shows any sign of weakness at all, the Villain can take that pot away.

aceswild83 · #34 09-06-2006, 02:23 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Wow c'mon guys, stuff like [ QUOTE ]
MP is obviously calling with any cards he raised with, and if he's any good, he's probably floating the flop too

[/ QUOTE ]

Is just ENORMOUS spew. Wow, does having these deep stacks give like people a license to think they will stack anyone enough with ANY hand in position enough to justify their preflop-call? If you are playing a total DONK perhaps, but against a good player you are going to be bleeding chips worse than Eli Elezra if you think this is the correct way of playing. You think you will NEVER pay of anything when you called a 3-bet with KQ and just hit a K or Q? You think you can play to hit top two or a straight each and every [censored] time and make the call preflop reasonable just becauese of that? WRONG. We are STILL playing the same stakes, the SMALL POTS still matters a LOT, no matter what kind of stacks we have.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't see what that matters. It's not about hitting a hand - it's knowing that your opponent needs more than one pair to continue most of the time. Is klonpucko really putting in 300 BBs with AA UI, for example? Is he firing 2 barrels with AA?

Basically a lot of the time he will whiff the flop with AKs and continuing will be very difficult because Villain may bet him off the best hand much more often than you think. If he shows any sign of weakness at all, the Villain can take that pot away.

[/ QUOTE ]

the same is true for villain no? being OOP doesn't mean we can't bluff and him having position doesn't give him the license to steal every pot. sure position is very important but is it really enough to offset the fact that our range kills his? of course if our range is only QQ+ AK then we will be easy to read but isn't that an argument to 3bet more hands not less?

DJ Sensei · #35 09-06-2006, 02:45 PM

I really like the way you played this on all streets, actually.

I like the preflop call because you're OOP, and reraising with AK here basically lets him control how big the pot gets on later streets: the bigger the pot, the more chance you're behind.

Flop is perfect, turn is perfect.

River, I'm not sure about leading out because if you're raised significantly you face a very difficult decision. However, If you c/c, you give him a chance to "value bet" with AQ/AJ (doubtful he'll call a c/r with those though) and also bluff with worse hands.

vnh.

(i think this thread is pretty solid too on the whole, btw)

klonpucko · #36 09-06-2006, 03:49 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Are you saying you don't three bet at all? I will give you my reasons for 3-betting. You are out of position against someone you perceive to be a good player. You have a strong hand and very often you will take it down preflop or with a continuation bet.

Are you cold calling with aces also in this spot? or kings FWIW...

[/ QUOTE ]

read the thread.

MDMA · #37 09-06-2006, 03:52 PM

Yiha, at least I was first in saying bet 2.5k on river. Wo-ha.

I don't really feel like explaining why I still think you are wrong triumph, I'm getting bored [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

But basically this is not the way to approach deep stacks poker, i.e calling 3-bets with everything and then floating pretty much every flop, that is pretty self-explanatory imo.

klonpucko · #38 09-06-2006, 04:06 PM

eh i feel like i'm repeating myself here but there seems to be a lot of people who simply don't get the point i'm trying to make. the sole reason we have for threebetting here would be: getting more money in with the best hand. reasons like "setting up a steal on the flop" or "taking it down preflop" doesn't apply when we are 500bbs deep. i am sure you all see why. negating his positional advantage by leaving less cash behind in our stacks postflop also seems like faulty logic, since there will be PLENTY of room to maneuver in even if i 3bet. and i just don't see how a simplistic argument like "we probably have the best hand" should apply since well umm, that could change very shortly and i will not know were i stand. you can say "widening your 3bet range preflop will disguise your hand" all you want, but it WILL define my hand A LOT better than just calling even if i 3bet a wide variety of hands.

Triumph36 · #39 09-06-2006, 04:19 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Yiha, at least I was first in saying bet 2.5k on river. Wo-ha.

I don't really feel like explaining why I still think you are wrong triumph, I'm getting bored [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

But basically this is not the way to approach deep stacks poker, i.e calling 3-bets with everything and then floating pretty much every flop, that is pretty self-explanatory imo.

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If klonpucko has shown the ability to 3 bet wide and they're playing a lot of pots, obviously this is incorrect. If klonpucko has not 3 bet a lot, this is pretty obviously correct. Floating with no pair/no draw may be wrong, but floating with backdoor flush or straight draws, one pair looking to hit a set, etc. may all become correct. It is going to be difficult for klonpucko to play these kinds of hands with only one pair, and a lot of the time that's what he's going to have.

klonpucko · #40 09-06-2006, 04:23 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Yiha, at least I was first in saying bet 2.5k on river. Wo-ha.

I don't really feel like explaining why I still think you are wrong triumph, I'm getting bored [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

But basically this is not the way to approach deep stacks poker, i.e calling 3-bets with everything and then floating pretty much every flop, that is pretty self-explanatory imo.

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seriously, i don't have any idea what you're getting at MDMA. if i was playing against a guy that i knew really well, we had prior history and i felt i had a good feel of the flow between us and how he perceives me, 3betting would obviously be money. but to just ram and jam head first out of position with $10k behind here out of position against a guy i have maybe 200ish hands on when i would have no idea how to value my TPTK when he raises me on the flop, that seems very reckless. disagree?

edit: blurgh, i keep posting when someone else just posted two seconds before me. AH WELL