*Official* Israel/Lebanon thread (politics)

[iron81]

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Firstly, under international law, Hezbollah's attacks on civilian populations are blatantly illegal whether they're the aggressor or not. Secondly, Hezbollah is hardly a guiltless party, and an argument could be made that they started the war by attacking and kidnapping Israeli soldiers.

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This is all true, but I was trying to make a utilitarian argument. The most likely end to the fighting is Israel withdrawing, so the best way to end the fighting is to do whatever possible to hasten this process.

Edit for post below: No comments, you nailed it.

[ACPlayer]

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UNITED NATIONS (CNN) -- An Arab League delegation wants the United Nations to include the immediate Israeli withdrawal from southern Lebanon as part of any deal to end the nearly four-week-old war between Israel and Lebanese-based Hezbollah.

A U.S.-French plan under consideration by the Security Council does not require an immediate Israeli withdrawal, an omission Lebanon's government and Arab League diplomats call unacceptable.

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I find it odd that the negotiations for ceasefire are between France and the US. The US is a proxy for Israel we know that. Is France a proxy for Hezbollah and/or Lebanon?

Comments.

[SLP]

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Israel Targets Any Vehicle in South Lebanon

I don't understand the purpose behind this new policy. Are Hezbollah launching rockets from moving vehicles? I don't believe that Hezbollah have been making regular (if any) use of car bombs. This sounds like an excuse to blow things up.

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If you read further into the article, you would have found this quote... "A military spokeswoman said the ban did not apply to Red Cross and United Nations relief convoys traveling in coordination with the Israeli army. She said the ban had been imposed in an attempt to choke off supplies to guerrillas who have continued firing rockets into northern Israel."

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Don't you think this is a bit of overkill? Israel is indiscriminately attacking people and property because of the minute chance that any particular vehicle is being used by Hezbollah for military purposes.

[niss]

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I wonder why Israel is criticized when it fires into a neighborhood -- they always seem to have a military justification and claim that civilians are not targets -- but there are no posts about Hezbollah indiscriminantly firing missiles into Israeli towns with absolutely no attempt to justify the action militarily, clearly designed to kill common folk.

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Hizbollah's attempts to use these casualties for their own propoganda doesn't make the shelling of civilian-populated areas any less abhorrant. And btw, the same applies to Hizbollah's missle attacks on civilian populations as well.

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I'm sorry ... I wasn't criticizing you. My statement was meant generally.

[New001]

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Israel Targets Any Vehicle in South Lebanon

I don't understand the purpose behind this new policy. Are Hezbollah launching rockets from moving vehicles? I don't believe that Hezbollah have been making regular (if any) use of car bombs. This sounds like an excuse to blow things up.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you read further into the article, you would have found this quote... "A military spokeswoman said the ban did not apply to Red Cross and United Nations relief convoys traveling in coordination with the Israeli army. She said the ban had been imposed in an attempt to choke off supplies to guerrillas who have continued firing rockets into northern Israel."

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Don't you think this is a bit of overkill? Israel is indiscriminately attacking people and property because of the minute chance that any particular vehicle is being used by Hezbollah for military purposes.

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I rarely find myself defending Israel these days, but as long as they make it explicitly clear to everyone in the targetted areas, I think this is reasonable. Of course, they risk all kinds of negative press if they botch it.

[Sniper]

Lebanese PM rejects multinational force for South Lebanon in latest setback for diplomatic effort.

Fouad Siniora told visiting US state department official David Welch Wednesday that only a Lebanese force backed by UNIFIL would be acceptable.

[Sniper]

Tens of thousands of IDF troops amassed along the northern border Wednesday evening in preparation for Israel's largest and deepest ground incursion into southern Lebanon since the beginning of Operation Change of Direction last month.

The security cabinet on Wednesday approved a plan presented by IDF Chief of General Staff Lt.-Gen. Dan Halutz, under which military forces by the thousands will head up to the Litani river over 20 kilometers from Israel and beyond in an effort to prevent the incessant Katyusha rocket attacks on northern Israel.

Some 7,000 IDF troops were operating in southern Lebanon Wednesday, clashing with Hizbullah guerrillas in several villages while holding and maintaining position along a 10-kilometer-deep security zone the IDF had created. An additional 40,000 IDF troops and reservists were waiting along the northern border in preparation for the major push to the Litani.

A high-ranking IDF officer and member of the General Staff told The Jerusalem Post Wednesday that it would take the military at least one week to reach the Litani and beyond, and to set up position and begin taking control of the area.

The officer said that it would then take four to six weeks to clear out southern Lebanon, from the Litani river south, of the Hizbullah presence and to destroy the thousands of Katyusha rockets and rocket launchers believed to be in that area.

The IDF estimates that the area between the Litani river and the security zone that military forces are currently maintaining is home to 70 percent of the Katyusha rockets launched at northern Israel.

In the plan approved by the cabinet on Wednesday, the IDF was also granted permission to cross the Litani river into areas like Nabatiyeh, from where Hizbullah has been firing rockets at the upper Galilee, as well as Haifa and other coast-lying cities.

Hizbullah's Nasser Unit, in charge of southern Lebanon, was still operational, the high-ranking officer said, and numbered several thousand Hizbullah fighters, including reservists, which the guerrilla group had called up in anticipation of Israel's planned massive ground incursion.

Hizbullah, the officer said, still retained its command and control abilities throughout Lebanon and had fighters deployed in between 100-130 villages from the Litani south. North of the river, the officer said, Hizbullah had a smaller presence, but one that still numbered several thousand fighters.

In southern Lebanon, within the security zone the IDF had created, soldiers were still battling in two Hizbullah strongholds - Bint Jbail and Ayta a-Shaab, scenes of heavy fighting between IDF troops and Hizbullah gunmen on Wednesday.

[Sniper]

I support the deployment of the Lebanese Armed Forces (LAF) in southern Lebanon and the boosting of the existing UNIFIL forces, Hizbullah leader Hassan Nasrallah said in a recorded televised address broadcast on the group's al-Manar network on Wednesday night.

Nasrallah strongly rejected the deployment of an international force alongside the LAF.

He demanded of Lebanese Prime Minister Fuad Saniora not to give in to American pressure.

[Sniper]

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The reason why is that Israel is the aggressor in this conflict. Israel can unilaterally end this conflict any time they want by retreating back across the border.

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Iron, I think even you understand that this conflict doesn't end by Israel simply withdrawing from S. Lebanon... the situation is far more complex than that.

[Sniper]

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UNITED NATIONS (CNN) -- An Arab League delegation wants the United Nations to include the immediate Israeli withdrawal from southern Lebanon as part of any deal to end the nearly four-week-old war between Israel and Lebanese-based Hezbollah.

A U.S.-French plan under consideration by the Security Council does not require an immediate Israeli withdrawal, an omission Lebanon's government and Arab League diplomats call unacceptable.

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I find it odd that the negotiations for ceasefire are between France and the US. The US is a proxy for Israel we know that. Is France a proxy for Hezbollah and/or Lebanon?

Comments.

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AC, the discussions going on are between the permanent members of the UN security council, in an attempt to reach consensus on a resolution that won't simply be vetoed. Of the permanent members, France has been the most active diplomatically, in discussions with the arab stakeholders in the area.