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#31
08-02-2006, 09:41 PM
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Re: Hobbes and Locke
And, re laws and logic, here's the first paragph of Oliver Wendell Holme's "The Common Law."
[1] The object of this book is to present a general view of the Common Law. To accomplish the task, other tools are needed besides logic. It is something to show that the consistency of a system requires a particular result, but it is not all. The life of the law has not been logic: it has been experience. The felt necessities of the time, the prevalent moral and political theories, intuitions of public policy, avowed or unconscious, even the prejudices which judges share with their fellow-men, have had a good deal more to do than the syllogism in determining the rules by which men should be governed. The law embodies the story of a nation's development through many centuries, and it cannot be dealt with as if it contained only the axioms and corollaries of a book of mathematics. In order to know what it is, we must know what it has been, and what it tends to become. We must alternately consult history and existing theories of legislation. But the most difficult labor will be to understand the combination of the two into new products at every stage. The substance of the law at any given time pretty nearly corresponds, so far as it goes, with what is then understood to be convenient; but its form and machinery, and the degree to which it is able to work out desired results, depend very much upon its past. 
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#32
08-03-2006, 12:00 AM
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Re: Hobbes and Locke
[ QUOTE ]
There is too much fantasy here. As a thought experiment, tell me what parts of the current system we can remove and still have things "work." For each one you name, I will show you how the world then goes to hell. [/ QUOTE ] Sounds fun. Why don't you start with the war on drugs?
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#33
08-03-2006, 12:08 AM
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Re: Hobbes and Locke
A good portion of Locke's political theory was good for his wallet. See the writings of James Tully, especially "Rediscovering America: the Two treatises and aboriginal rights" in An approach to political philosophy: Locke in contexts.
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#35
08-03-2006, 12:58 AM
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Re: Hobbes and Locke
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] There is too much fantasy here. As a thought experiment, tell me what parts of the current system we can remove and still have things "work." For each one you name, I will show you how the world then goes to hell. [/ QUOTE ] Sounds fun. Why don't you start with the war on drugs? [/ QUOTE ] How about $5000 toilet seats? Or USDA meat inspection? Warantless domestic wiretaps? Bridges to nowhere?
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#36
08-03-2006, 01:39 AM
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Re: Hobbes and Locke
I'm not talking about specific laws or things of that nature--I was talking courts, schools, roads, the FDA, the Army, the FAA, fire departments, etc. I agree that the "drug war" is bunk and there are serious problems with our drug laws--but you've got to be high if you think abolishing government would be a "solution" to the myriad problems and inefficiencies of our political system (or any political system). Embrace complexity, it's the first step toward coming to terms with reality.
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#37
08-03-2006, 01:42 AM
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Re: Hobbes and Locke
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] There is too much fantasy here. As a thought experiment, tell me what parts of the current system we can remove and still have things "work." For each one you name, I will show you how the world then goes to hell. [/ QUOTE ] Sounds fun. Why don't you start with the war on drugs? [/ QUOTE ] How about $5000 toilet seats? Or USDA meat inspection? Warantless domestic wiretaps? Bridges to nowhere? [/ QUOTE ] Your insightful post has caused me to rethink my views and I hearby retract my prior commments. This is like wrestling midgets.
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#38
08-03-2006, 03:17 AM
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Re: Hobbes and Locke
[ QUOTE ]
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- So begins the hostile AC politard takeover of SMP. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Fantastic. Maybe I can re-steal. Anyone here believe in God?!?! MORONS!! HHAHAHAAHA! did it work? [/ QUOTE ] I try to be nice to you guys but seriously: STOP BRINGING YOUR RELIGION INTO EVERY THREAD. That is what it is; a faith based system that you guys cling to piously that is absurd to everyone else who doesn't believe your god is infallible (allah, the market, jesus, historical matieralism). It is really sad to see people who have given up the afterlife unable to work on human well-being for the here and now.
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#39
08-03-2006, 04:25 AM
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Re: Hobbes and Locke
[ QUOTE ]
Hobbes assumes that human beings are inherently evil [/ QUOTE ] And I'll add that even if they are inherently evil, each one hating every other one, it would still not lend any justification to government, nor would it change their economizing nature.
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#40
08-03-2006, 04:30 AM
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Re: Hobbes and Locke
[ QUOTE ]
Of course, he's correct. In a world of limited resources there will always be disputes, and without government/laws, the resolution of those disputes will inevitably be violent. Every 10 year old should understand this, but most ACers apparently do not. [/ QUOTE ] I'm confused. Do you mean that *with* government, the resolution of disputes over scarce resources will *not* be violent?
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Linear Mode
