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#31
06-16-2006, 06:55 AM
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Re: Question in $225 Stars Turbo hand.
[ QUOTE ]
obviously I can fold it preflop but I called with the intention of hitting two pair, not one pair. [/ QUOTE ] Are you calling 54o here as well? J9o? 
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#32
06-16-2006, 08:17 AM
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Re: Question in $225 Stars Turbo hand.
RK,
Just woke up and saw this thread. Here we go. First off, I fold pre-flop just lik everyone else said. I think you said that you called w/ the intention of hitting 2 pair and not 1 so it's good to know you at least won't be going broke with just top pair (and I didn't think you would) but where do you draw the line? If you're limping this hand to hit a monster, you might as well limp every hand to hit a monster and you gotta draw the line somewhere. OK, well given that you got to a flop, I think you have to go broke on it. You have both a flush draw and a straight draw out and I would think (wrongly in this instance) that TT or JJ would have raised PF. So yeah, I say get it in. I'd feel good about top 2 on this flop. Moving on... a good way to think about chip EV v. money EV is thinking about a cash game v. a tournament. In a cash game, each chip is worth face value. So cEV = $EV in a cash game. A move either has positive or negative expectation and that's that. In a tournament, you are not playing for the money on the table, you are playing for a portion of the prizepool. Since being eliminated from the tournament leaves you with a 0% chance of winning anything, cEV does not always equal $EV. Sometimes survival outweighs winning chips. The bubble is a common place for this occurance to happen. Sometimes you have to pass on edges you'd take in a cash game because if you lose, you no longer have a chance of winning money. Anyway, the FAQ can explain all that better than I can. Look for ICM and get familiar with it.
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#33
06-16-2006, 01:29 PM
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Re: Question in $225 Stars Turbo hand.
[ QUOTE ]
RK, Just woke up and saw this thread. Here we go. First off, I fold pre-flop just lik everyone else said. I think you said that you called w/ the intention of hitting 2 pair and not 1 so it's good to know you at least won't be going broke with just top pair (and I didn't think you would) but where do you draw the line? If you're limping this hand to hit a monster, you might as well limp every hand to hit a monster and you gotta draw the line somewhere. OK, well given that you got to a flop, I think you have to go broke on it. You have both a flush draw and a straight draw out and I would think (wrongly in this instance) that TT or JJ would have raised PF. So yeah, I say get it in. I'd feel good about top 2 on this flop. Moving on... a good way to think about chip EV v. money EV is thinking about a cash game v. a tournament. In a cash game, each chip is worth face value. So cEV = $EV in a cash game. A move either has positive or negative expectation and that's that. In a tournament, you are not playing for the money on the table, you are playing for a portion of the prizepool. Since being eliminated from the tournament leaves you with a 0% chance of winning anything, cEV does not always equal $EV. Sometimes survival outweighs winning chips. The bubble is a common place for this occurance to happen. Sometimes you have to pass on edges you'd take in a cash game because if you lose, you no longer have a chance of winning money. Anyway, the FAQ can explain all that better than I can. Look for ICM and get familiar with it. [/ QUOTE ] Thank you. I appreciate the time you took to explain that to me. GL on your tables!
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#34
06-16-2006, 02:05 PM
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Re: Question in $225 Stars Turbo hand.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Oh, and one more thing as a side question: Would anyone here mind explaining to me the difference between chipEV and $EV. Thank you. [/ QUOTE ] I don't understand how you can be a winner at the $200 and $500 SNGs. Also, I'm not trying to insult you or anything. This preflop limp is ATROCIOUS (and wtf? "limp to hit two pair, not top pair?"), and you're also asking the difference between chip_EV and $EV? How are you winning at this level of SNGS? Weren't you 30-tabling the lower limits a while ago? edit: again, not trying to start a flame war. just trying to figure out how a person limping JTo in MP early game and asking what's chip_EV is doing at the $525s. [/ QUOTE ] The pf limp is not attrocious if you have game. Just because some hands are not in the starting hand charts from the books you've read, does not make them attrocious. Implied odds are huge. On the flop, he had top two pair, which makes the odds of trips much smaller. I would only worry about fours. The guy had the case tens to bust him. It happens. As for chip EV vs $EV. When you are heasds up, they are the same thing. When you have four people remaining, they are very different. Because you won't see any money if you get knocked out, you need a large edge to make money. For example, getting all in with 44 vs ATo would be horrible here and actually costs you money under most conditions. If the blinds were huge, things would be diff.
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#35
06-16-2006, 02:16 PM
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Re: Question in $225 Stars Turbo hand.
[ QUOTE ]
The pf limp is not attrocious if you have game. Just because some hands are not in the starting hand charts from the books you've read, does not make them attrocious. [/ QUOTE ] It is fairly understood that limping this hand is not terrible. I will not go broke on hands like these this early. As displayed, limping this hand will increase variance and if you are playing more than 8+ tables than you dont have time for these creative limps anyway. So, Im not sure how nuch game you think you have but those reasons right there are plenty for me to FOLD PF.
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#38
06-16-2006, 03:04 PM
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Re: Question in $225 Stars Turbo hand.
[ QUOTE ]
its not atrocious, its just not good. It can only be SO terrible when you are calling for just 30 chips. [/ QUOTE ] o.k...so what do I know.... but I'm with Curtains on this one. It may not be a GREAT limp...but if you have some game...I see little harm in playing around a little (i.e 'mixing it up') in the early levels.
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#39
06-16-2006, 03:06 PM
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Re: Question in $225 Stars Turbo hand.
Well honestly I think the limp is more of a big deal than people are saying. I think its definitely a bad limp, but not hideous. However anyone who makes this limp in a sit and go almost surely has some problems in their game. However taken on it's own, it's not terrible or anything like that, just clearly not good, or -EV you may call it. Thats just my opinion.
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#40
06-16-2006, 03:33 PM
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Re: Question in $225 Stars Turbo hand.
[ QUOTE ]
Well honestly I think the limp is more of a big deal than people are saying. I think its definitely a bad limp, but not hideous. However anyone who makes this limp in a sit and go almost surely has some problems in their game. However taken on it's own, it's not terrible or anything like that, just clearly not good, or -EV you may call it. Thats just my opinion. [/ QUOTE ] I'm agreeing 100% with this post and your point
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