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#31
03-11-2007, 04:48 PM
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Re: Beauty in the World Argument vs Atheism
All,
Everyone else is providing either (at best) counterexamples to OP's position or (at worst) anecdotal differences of perception. This is poor form. As I already stated, the correct reply is that OP's "argument" is merely a tautology and as such does not need refutation. He might as well be saying, "God created the world so we know that God exists." He is building an assumption of God into his definitions. 
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#32
03-11-2007, 05:00 PM
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Re: Beauty in the World Argument vs Atheism
[ QUOTE ]
All, Everyone else is providing either (at best) counterexamples to OP's position or (at worst) anecdotal differences of perception. This is poor form. As I already stated, the correct reply is that OP's "argument" is merely a tautology and as such does not need refutation. He might as well be saying, "God created the world so we know that God exists." He is building an assumption of God into his definitions. [/ QUOTE ] Thank god you cleared up the right answer for us. Maybe you can get your own forum right below DS's.
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#33
03-11-2007, 05:00 PM
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Re: Beauty in the World Argument vs Atheism
Plz explain your disagreement...(edit)if I appear arrogantly insistent on this point, it's because I think it is both extremely important AND subtle enough to slip past most people.
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#35
03-11-2007, 06:14 PM
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Re: Beauty in the World Argument vs Atheism
[ QUOTE ]
He is building an assumption of God into his definitions. [/ QUOTE ] whether Newton, DS, Eskimodisease, there are people when they come to something they can't 'explain' have the need ( the reason for that may vary from person to person) to throw up their hands and say, 'well, that's it. I'm a bright guy, I can't explain it or understand the explanation of others, so god did it." For Newton it was aspects of planetary motion. I wonder if Newton would go the 'ok, that's it, god is the only explanation' for it today. Others seem able to shrug and optimistically say, "we don't understand it yet and we may never understand it, but.... Onward, through the fog! " The triggering mystery changes over time and from person to person and gets dressed up in various ways but it's the same route to their personal 'logical conclusion'. luckyme
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#36
03-11-2007, 06:19 PM
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Re: Beauty in the World Argument vs Atheism
[ QUOTE ]
Plz explain your disagreement...(edit)if I appear arrogantly insistent on this point, it's because I think it is both extremely important AND subtle enough to slip past most people. [/ QUOTE ] My bad. I was being as dismissive as you were... It's not that I 'disagree', it's that you WERE (appeared?) quite arrogant. OP invited commentary, and it was given by many people. I think there is no 'right answer' here. There are several interesting ways to look at the subject, and the question itself has interesting implications in psychology and evolution, regardless of what kind of an 'argument' it is for God. (As you pointed out, it's a stupid one, but aren't they all?) I go into these discussions looking for the offshoots of the OP's...I don't see any value in arguing the existence of God, since people who believe in god are obviously incapable of critical thought. (oops....just got pretty arrogant there myself [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] )
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#37
03-11-2007, 06:33 PM
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Re: Beauty in the World Argument vs Atheism
[ QUOTE ]
I go into these discussions looking for the offshoots of the OP's [/ QUOTE ] Touche. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] It's probably that I only just escaped theism's fell clutches, so I feel compelled to annihilate it as completely as possible wherever it appears, lol. My bad.
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#38
03-11-2007, 10:22 PM
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Re: Beauty in the World Argument vs Atheism
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Regardless, "beautiful = good" doesn't wash. Certainly this principle doesn't extend to the sense of taste. Otherwise GNC would sell nothing but Dr. Pepper and Twinkies. [/ QUOTE ] both of which taste pretty disgusting to me. There are suggestions that its not that we are prewired in some way to like/dislike the taste of what we eat but rather we tend to like the taste of things we ate when young (and survived and hence is good). Then it would be the ability to distinguish tastes and link them to some sensation of like/dislike that is advantagous. chez [/ QUOTE ] Dr. Pepper, Twinkies, and other sweets made up a very small proportion of the food I ate when I was young. (Thanks Mom!) I think I just like the taste of 'em. -J [/ QUOTE ] You don't think I was suggesting otherwise do you? never heard of a twinkie taste bud. chez
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#40
03-11-2007, 11:40 PM
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Re: Beauty in the World Argument vs Atheism
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] ........... and most importantly randomness in the creation of the world as it stands today. The scientific athiest believes that there is no purpose behind events and processes, ......... [/ QUOTE ] This part isn't `scientific' atheism. It is `STRAW-MAN' atheism. This `STRAW-MAN' version of atheism is a fiction of your sunday school teacher's imagination. You first need to understand what atheists actually believe, and you also need to know what science actually claims. [/ QUOTE ] scientific atheism is a term i made up to define people that think in the particular way i described for the purpose of this post. sorry i thought that was pretty clear.
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