suspicious pokerstars shortstackers data

[beset]

It is nice to hear from you Joel. Although I cop an attitude with you and others in the forum I do think you are making +EV decisions based on the structure of the games and the ability to rat-hole etc. Not maximum +EV in my opinion but I respect that you are grinding out a living and I know you are a winning player. I just often wonder if bots are being used by players like yourself because the strategy would be so easy to program a computer to do, the pure volume of hours played, the way the whole herd seems to swoop in on any table once it reaches a certain number of players, no chat, etc. I, like you, however, have a hard time getting too worked up since I am winning but it would be awesome for me personally to have short-handed games with no push-bots (whether literal bots or people who play 10 hours a day using your strategy).

beset

[BluffTHIS!]

joel,

I only flamed your assertions about being a good player, and a good people player in particular. Had you worded as you just did as good at eeking out a win by taking advantage of a flaw through a strategy available to all, then I wouldn't have flamed you.

And you are right that players should complain about datamining on any site, but they should do that along with complaining about the structure, not instead.

[Big Dave D]

I was going to chirp in on Joel's defense. I too remember him from years back. Also, surprisingly, I disagree with Bluff. Poker is always about winning money. Intrinsically, without the money bit, its a pretty dull and uninteresting game. Any notion of one kind of winning being superior to another kind of winning is a nonsense. My only rider to that would be meta game reasons such as game preservation. But I suspect the fish don't really get that upset by Rolfs as good players do.

gl

dd

[autobet]

[ QUOTE ]
I cannot disagree with whoever posted that there is a structural problem with allowing short buyins. The solutions are to raise the minimum, to increase the length of time after which you are allowed to resit with the minimum, or to create a subset of tables with a higher minimum. But that is up to PS, not me, and I think it is in poor taste to flame me for trying to earn some money while playing within the rules that PS has established.



[/ QUOTE ]

I wouldn't take it personally. I could care less what one person does and don't mind a short stack at the table. The problem is when 4 out of 9 players are on a short stack it is no longer "big bet poker". The game is simplified, the skill and swings are reduced, and is no longer fun, interesting and exciting.

[guilt_trip]

Suckoutter isnt a bot either. He was a solid winner at the lower levels (he sometimes played PL50, PLO100 and more) and then he disappeared and showed up shortstacking the bigger limit games

[sahaguje]

Have you looked at OP's stats ? I do not see how it is possible without some kind of cheating. Pete, are you absolutely positive about them ?

[pete fabrizio]

[ QUOTE ]
Have you looked at OP's stats ? I do not see how it is possible without some kind of cheating. Pete, are you absolutely positive about them ?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm positive that the stats I posted accurately reflect what is in my database. If I ever finish a bunch of overdue papers I may break them down further.

[TheRempel]

[ QUOTE ]
1) I am a very good human PLO player
(2) I play roughly 10 hours per day most days, which is the upper limit for how much time I can spend playing poker without burning out or getting my wife really mad at me
(3) I chat occasionally, but almost always play 5 to 7 tables in the minimum window size with chat turned off, so that I can concentrate on my play


[/ QUOTE ]

These three things do not go together. Why the hell would you play 5-7 tables shortstacking as a good player? Shortstack strategy is so basic and requires so little attention you could easily 12 table or more.

[ QUOTE ]
(4) I prefer to play with a short stack for a variety of strategic and money management reasons. I do not care to discuss these reasons because they are proprietary, but you can get some idea by reading Rolf’s book

[/ QUOTE ]

Proprietary? LOL.
[ QUOTE ]

(6) A number of the regular players are annoyed by my playing short-stacked, because I am a good and therefore winning player and because the strategy is effective. If I played poorly or picked a stupid strategy, none of you would care.


[/ QUOTE ]

I'd like to see a graph. I haven't played on pokerstars in close to a year, but at that point you were a breakeven player in my database.

Regardless of how well you play your tiny stack, your presence as a shortstack GREATLY changes the way the game plays.

[stinkypete]

a few points:

-the fact that joelmick or anyone is a winning fullstack/PLO tournament player does NOT in any way suggest that they are any less likely to be bots. anyone who's good enough to make a winning bot is a winning player anyway.

-the fact that they play so many levels, particularly if they play a lot in all of them, is REALLY STRONG evidence that they are bots. most people that are bankrolled for 10/20 are not gonna be able to play 1/2 seriously. one or two would be believable, but the fact that there's so many of them is extremely strong evidence that they're bots (or at the very least multiaccounters)

- ratholing rules. doing it with bots or multiple accounts is despicable.

[stinkypete]

[ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
(4) I prefer to play with a short stack for a variety of strategic and money management reasons. I do not care to discuss these reasons because they are proprietary, but you can get some idea by reading Rolf’s book

[/ QUOTE ]

Proprietary? LOL.

[/ QUOTE ]

my thought exactly. another point that suggests bot.