How to observe opponents while multitabling?

[benza13]

Staggering start times works for some, but not for others. Since Party went to time based levels I can't stagger them anymore, or play continuously all that well either, I don't know what it is, but I start to lose it once I have 6 going at different stages. Playing in sets I am fine and can get reads pretty well.

Indy, one thing I have learned that may seem strange for getting reads while multitabling is patience. For instance, there was just a big pot on one of my tables, but I missed it due to action on other tables. Well, open up the hand history and next time you have a chance, look at it then, don't worry about getting to it right away unless you are involved in a big pot with one of the villains from the other hand it won't matter immediately anyhow.

Also, I would recommend against the heads up matches while you are playing full games, at least until you are more comfortable with reads. They distract your attention too much, IMO, and are part of the reason why staggering doesn't work for some. When you have some matches still 8+ handed and others ITM/HU it gets too difficult to pay attention to the full games.

[Indiana]

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Staggering start times works for some, but not for others. Since Party went to time based levels I can't stagger them anymore, or play continuously all that well either, I don't know what it is, but I start to lose it once I have 6 going at different stages. Playing in sets I am fine and can get reads pretty well.

Indy, one thing I have learned that may seem strange for getting reads while multitabling is patience. For instance, there was just a big pot on one of my tables, but I missed it due to action on other tables. Well, open up the hand history and next time you have a chance, look at it then, don't worry about getting to it right away unless you are involved in a big pot with one of the villains from the other hand it won't matter immediately anyhow.

Also, I would recommend against the heads up matches while you are playing full games, at least until you are more comfortable with reads. They distract your attention too much, IMO, and are part of the reason why staggering doesn't work for some. When you have some matches still 8+ handed and others ITM/HU it gets too difficult to pay attention to the full games.

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I've read every response. Thank you everybody. I think my problem is that I've been playing HU matches during multi tablling sessions and its just too much. I'm going to drop down to the $22s and only play 2 at a time Thursday night when I get my next chance to play. If I feel comfortable at that with no distractions then I'll likely add two more tables. Hopefully I'll be back at the $33s in a week and back to the $55s where I've head much success single tabling. I think I'll try to do 2 $33s starting Sunday and skip the big stars tourney to focus. Then add two more after that.

I will also get that PAHUD software. Thank you everybody!

Indy

[glass_onion]

i struggle a bit at 4 tables, and what I note is that I am not improving my game the way I should be. That said, you simply cannot make realistic money without doing 4+ tables. My ROI for 22-$55 is around 35% doing 2 tables, after 250, so far about 100 into 4+tabling I'm struggling to get over 10%.

Still, my hourly rate is 2x as good.

Start two turbo's. I hate turbo's, but just to start out with. Wait 5 minutes and start two regulars. I like to have one regular be at less than my full buying, so 3x$50 and 1x$20. that's my 'autopilot' table. You will be doing bubble play on the turbo's before you are halfway through the regulars. Consider a 100+ tourney at one table. That's all folding anyway, until late.

PAHUD is awesome, because late in a tourney I can see someone who plays 40% or 10% of flops, raises 5% or 0%, really! 0%. The only thing I note is late play, which goes right into hand ranges (calling, pushing). Anything else I can decipher from PAHUD.

Get very comfortable with ICM calc's; they really aren't that hard when you start to categorize. Mainly, calling a push is much more dependent on your chip position against your opponents than that particular opponents hand range. Its even more important if you really don't know his hand range.

I still think someone must literally be a phenomenon to do 6+ talbes at $100 or over. I've got a lot to learn, but I look forward to the work!

[Indiana]

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Mainly, calling a push is much more dependent on your chip position against your opponents than that particular opponents hand range.

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Could you elaborate? I agree and the weakest part of my game is spotting those marginal +$EV spots to call a push when I am a healthy stack and my opponent is not.

Indy

[pineapple888]

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Mainly, calling a push is much more dependent on your chip position against your opponents than that particular opponents hand range.

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Could you elaborate? I agree and the weakest part of my game is spotting those marginal +$EV spots to call a push when I am a healthy stack and my opponent is not.

Indy

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I have to disagree with the original point here. The relative importance of putting Villain on a range does change based on situation but it is nearly always still a critical factor. It seems completely obvious to me that you need some sense of whether you are ahead or behind, and how far, to make an intelligent decision on whether to call.

[JMills109]

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Mainly, calling a push is much more dependent on your chip position against your opponents than that particular opponents hand range.

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Could you elaborate? I agree and the weakest part of my game is spotting those marginal +$EV spots to call a push when I am a healthy stack and my opponent is not.

Indy

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Putting your opponent on a range of hands they are pushing is just as important as chip stacks etc. IMO. Without an idea of what your opponent is pushing I dont understand how you could make any educated decisions on whether or not to call.

[bighomeytim]

A Donk's chip stack has more affect on his pushing/calling range than a read IMO.

[pineapple888]

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Interesting we haven't heard from any of the high volume 8+ tablers yet on this.

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We've all responded multiple times to this type of post and I'm personally not looking to get into yet another debate... but what the heck, here's my take on it...

I don't use PAHUD. Curtains doesn't use PAHUD. Raptor (if anyone remembers him) didn't use PAHUD. Tigerite (who's that?) does.

So there is a difference of opinion.

To summarize why I don't use it:
- Not specific enough for STTs (too many variables, too small a sample size for a given set of variables) compared to cash games
- Information overload: there's already enough numbers to keep track of and interpret when I'm 8-tabling. I want reads, not numbers.
- The "crutch" effect: I take as detailed notes as I can and might not do that with PAHUD.
- Too abstract: I think Tigerite has a completely black background, no avatars, no table icons, no nothing basically, just 6 PAHUD numbers for each player. That just doesn't work for me. I need to think of my opponents as people to play well. The only mod I use is the waffle cards (and turning off card animation and sound) and I leave the avatars there.

Someone said they use PAHUD AND take detailed notes. This may be the ideal approach.

Otherwise there is good advice in this thread about the process of taking notes, e.g. pop open the hand history and the notes windows (in case somebody busts out) for the players when there's a showdown and then get to it whenever you can if you are busy with other tables at the moment. Sometimes I just let it go if I'm playing 6 bubbles at once or whatever, that's part of the price you pay for 8-tabling. Sometimes I take fairly detailed notes (you'll develop your own set of abbreviations) and sometimes I just note down "moron" or "solid" or something like that. It's often not showdowns either, it's usually things like "mr after limpers L2" or "huge overbet on turn L1". It helps to be a fast typer obviously.

That's about it, I guess. I have nothing against PAHUD, I just don't prefer it and don't think it's necessary in any way to be a winning player at STTs, and I'd recommend getting used to taking detailed notes before you come to rely on it.

[caretaker1]

For those who are using PAHUD, what stats do you find the most useful during your game? I've used it for a bit, and aside from getting a hint about the general quality of player, I haven't found it that useful.

[pineapple888]

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A Donk's chip stack has more affect on his pushing/calling range than a read IMO.

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Well, your read isn't changing his range, but anyway... I have many notes like "pushes total crap as SS" and "timid SS" so I don't really see what the debate is. Donks aren't all alike and stack size should be part of your read.