Nation's Modship

[Bobo Fett]

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Also from that thread, nation claimed to have no involvement with Chuck's scheme in the beginning. He later revealed that he attempted to stake people into this scheme but things fell through. Again, not a direct lie, but not truthy at all.

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Nation said:

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I made plans to stake them myself (not to play with chuck) and did not go through with it.

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Maybe this is being nitty, but the two seem quite different to me. "Things fell through" seems to imply that he planned to go ahead with it, but perhaps the deal fell apart or some such thing...IE he would have done it if he could have. "Did not go through with it" sounds like Nation made a decision not to do it, even though he could have.

[BluffTHIS!]

KotOD,

I'm not totally ruling out nation not being fully truthful. However buying into a group that plays the same roll but where each play independantly straight up, is a reasonable alernative to an intent to buy into a botting consortium. Also note the post in the zoo thread with a very reasonable explanation that the group first started out straight up, then only later started botting, and now plays straight up part-time as a cover, which might be all nation sees.

And I questioned him on that script stuff too for not divulging that in his first post. However it nonetheless is possible that he made that ommission knowing it would look bad, but still honestly believing that was the extent of his friend's software use in playing.

Again the possibility of nation being untruthful in some way isn't zero by any means, but it's not a slam dunk he was lying. However it is clear that he has done himself a great disservice in these forums by his postings in that thread.

[ZBTHorton]

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Chuck is a good guy, and to be honest, doesn't even know how to configure his virus protection; I had to do it for him.

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nation implies that Chuck is too computer illiterate to program a bot by saying the above.

But he's bright enough to install, program and update hotkey scripts:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...rue#Post8932154

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...rue#Post8988150

Note that nation was involved in other hotkey programming questions ans script threads with Chuck. nation isn't directly lying to mislead people, but his truthiness is approaching zero here.

Are mods allowed to run smokescreens to cover for friends?

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Also from that thread, nation claimed to have no involvement with Chuck's scheme in the beginning. He later revealed that he attempted to stake people into this scheme but things fell through. Again, not a direct lie, but not truthy at all.



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Watch what your saying, because you are misquoting him in order to help make your point.

I didn't read anywhere that he said his plans "fell through". I read that he decided not to do it. These are very very very different things.

Also. Just because he even entertained this thought, doesn't mean he was involved from the beginning.

[KotOD]

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Also from that thread, nation claimed to have no involvement with Chuck's scheme in the beginning. He later revealed that he attempted to stake people into this scheme but things fell through. Again, not a direct lie, but not truthy at all.

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Nation said:

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I made plans to stake them myself (not to play with chuck) and did not go through with it.

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Maybe this is being nitty, but the two seem quite different to me. "Things fell through" seems to imply that he planned to go ahead with it, but perhaps the deal fell apart or some such thing...IE he would have done it if he could have. "Did not go through with it" sounds like Nation made a decision not to do it, even though he could have.

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Funny, I'm thinking of this:

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Yep, several of my friends wanted to get into Chuck's crew but had no startup money. I had plans to stake them and do this, but never got off the ground.

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So, again, another instance of the story shifting to cover something.


And yes, I said "fell through" where he uses "never got off the ground", my mistake. Either way, it's shady as [censored].

[KotOD]

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Chuck is a good guy, and to be honest, doesn't even know how to configure his virus protection; I had to do it for him.

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nation implies that Chuck is too computer illiterate to program a bot by saying the above.

But he's bright enough to install, program and update hotkey scripts:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...rue#Post8932154

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...rue#Post8988150

Note that nation was involved in other hotkey programming questions ans script threads with Chuck. nation isn't directly lying to mislead people, but his truthiness is approaching zero here.

Are mods allowed to run smokescreens to cover for friends?

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Also from that thread, nation claimed to have no involvement with Chuck's scheme in the beginning. He later revealed that he attempted to stake people into this scheme but things fell through. Again, not a direct lie, but not truthy at all.



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Watch what your saying, because you are misquoting him in order to help make your point.

I didn't read anywhere that he said his plans "fell through". I read that he decided not to do it. These are very very very different things.

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So if I make plans and they "fall through", that's a large difference than "not getting off of the ground"? Enough for a finger-wag?

Either way, the plan was in place to go into Chuck's crew.

[Bobo Fett]

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I dont understand why this isnt clear to everyone else... please, point out what part of what I'm saying is incorrect:

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I'll try.

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Guys, I understand that online =/= live.

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Do you?

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Entering a MTT with multiple accounts is universally unethical, live or online. Why isnt "multiple players to a hand" treated the same way?

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Because online =/= live. Entering a MTT with multiple accounts is against the poker site's rules. Multiple players to a hand is not.

Am I allowed to sit in a poker room with a sheet of paper and mark down what every player does every hand? Can I use a calculator to calculate their VPIP, PFR, etc, from this information? Or perhaps a computer? Can I get some yellow stickies and mark down each players stats, then stick them to each player's foreheads? I'll need them to keep wearing those stickies too, so that next time I play that player, maybe in a week, maybe in a month, I will still have their stats. Will the poker room also provide me with another sticky for each player's forehead on which I can write extensive notes on their play? No? Then why can I do all of these things online?

Yes, some of these examples are a little over the top, but they demonstrate that, as you said, online =/= live. You are using rules and ethics almost interchangeably in some instances. Is 2+2 now to police ethics? Whose ethics should they use? Rules are clear, black and white...ethics are not.

[Bobo Fett]

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Funny, I'm thinking of this:

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Yep, several of my friends wanted to get into Chuck's crew but had no startup money. I had plans to stake them and do this, but never got off the ground.

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So, again, another instance of the story shifting to cover something.

And yes, I said "fell through" where he uses "never got off the ground", my mistake. Either way, it's shady as [censored].

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Meh...I thought there was another post, but I couldn't find it. I'll concede that is much closer to what you said, makes my point much nittier.

I tend to agree with Bluff, though...I don't know that this is a big deal.

[KotOD]

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Funny, I'm thinking of this:

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Yep, several of my friends wanted to get into Chuck's crew but had no startup money. I had plans to stake them and do this, but never got off the ground.

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So, again, another instance of the story shifting to cover something.

And yes, I said "fell through" where he uses "never got off the ground", my mistake. Either way, it's shady as [censored].

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Meh...I thought there was another post, but I couldn't find it. I'll concede that is much closer to what you said, makes my point much nittier.

I tend to agree with Bluff, though...I don't know that this is a big deal.

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I don't know that it is either, I'm just pointing out that the dude's story shifts constantly and some of it has been borderline lies/coverups.

Each piece of this starts out one way, and goes another when pressed.

[Bobo Fett]

On a side note, is 992 posts in one thread in 24 hours some kind of record? Hmmm...maybe not with POG around. Sniper? [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[BluffTHIS!]

Bobo,

YOU ARE FORGETTING THE EPIC BRANDI THREAD!