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#31
11-14-2007, 12:23 PM
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Re: Conservative Definition of Freedom
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] If I am free to pursue whatever I consider to be my goal, then that is freedom. If someone else decides, I am, by definition, not free. [/ QUOTE ] I think this is very well put. Obviously this means there's no perfect freedom, but that's ok. Some goals are more acceptable than others. Consider: Person A: His goal is to kidnap young girls and rape them Person B: His goal is to have gay sex with a different partner every night I have no problem imposing my morality on Person A and restricting his liberty to pursue his goals. [/ QUOTE ] You've almost arrived at a generalizable principle. All you have to do is look at the other end of his actions. Person A is presumably acting upon someone who does not consent. If we assume these girls have a goal to be free from kidnapping and rape, then person A's action would be objectionable not because of some intrinsic property of the action, but because of the lack of voluntary agreement from the other party in the transaction. Likewise, Person B's actions to achieve his goal may or may not be objectionable - we don't have any information indicating that the partners consent. 
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#32
11-14-2007, 12:39 PM
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Re: Conservative Definition of Freedom
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Rudy G: [ QUOTE ] Freedom is about authority. Freedom is about the willingness of every single human being to cede to lawful authority a great deal of discretion about what you do. [/ QUOTE ] [/ QUOTE ] G. Orwell: [ QUOTE ] freedom is slavery [/ QUOTE ] PS: hahahahah I knew as soon as I saw that Copernicus responded that he'd defend Santorum's nonsense. natedogg [/ QUOTE ] wow and I was wrong that you didnt fall back on one of your ludicrous social security rants. [/ QUOTE ] It's ok. When one doesn't understand how social security works the critiques seem ludicrous. natedogg
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#33
11-14-2007, 12:41 PM
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Re: Conservative Definition of Freedom
[ QUOTE ]
For me freedom is useless without an attempt at equality. I won't hold it to perfection to support it, but it is important to me that the principle is there. Without equality freedom seems to me like nothing more than access to air without access to water. [/ QUOTE ] Define equality. natedogg
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#34
11-14-2007, 12:44 PM
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Re: Conservative Definition of Freedom
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Rudy G: [ QUOTE ] Freedom is about authority. Freedom is about the willingness of every single human being to cede to lawful authority a great deal of discretion about what you do. [/ QUOTE ] [/ QUOTE ] G. Orwell: [ QUOTE ] freedom is slavery [/ QUOTE ] PS: hahahahah I knew as soon as I saw that Copernicus responded that he'd defend Santorum's nonsense. natedogg [/ QUOTE ] wow and I was wrong that you didnt fall back on one of your ludicrous social security rants. [/ QUOTE ] It's ok. When one doesn't understand how social security works the critiques seem ludicrous. natedogg [/ QUOTE ] Yes, so why do you bother repeating your same misunderstandings.
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#35
11-14-2007, 01:22 PM
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Re: Conservative Definition of Freedom
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Rudy G: [ QUOTE ] Freedom is about authority. Freedom is about the willingness of every single human being to cede to lawful authority a great deal of discretion about what you do. [/ QUOTE ] [/ QUOTE ] G. Orwell: [ QUOTE ] freedom is slavery [/ QUOTE ] PS: hahahahah I knew as soon as I saw that Copernicus responded that he'd defend Santorum's nonsense. natedogg [/ QUOTE ] wow and I was wrong that you didnt fall back on one of your ludicrous social security rants. [/ QUOTE ] It's ok. When one doesn't understand how social security works the critiques seem ludicrous. natedogg [/ QUOTE ] Just want to point out, no matter how you feel about Copernicus and his politics, he is well informed on Social Security. He is a qualified actuary, I think it is safe to say that he has a pretty good understanding of how the system works.
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#36
11-14-2007, 01:30 PM
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To Copernicus
[ QUOTE ]
Just want to point out, no matter how you feel about Copernicus and his politics, he is well informed on Social Security. He is a qualified actuary, I think it is safe to say that he has a pretty good understanding of how the system works. [/ QUOTE ] I agree. Copernicus, Would you be willing to "go in the well" on this forum where we ask you questions about SS in a separate thread. Might help to clear up possible misconceptions including mine. I cleared this with iron81 in advance and he's ok with it.
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#37
11-14-2007, 02:04 PM
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Re: Conservative Definition of Freedom
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Rudy G: [ QUOTE ] Freedom is about authority. Freedom is about the willingness of every single human being to cede to lawful authority a great deal of discretion about what you do. [/ QUOTE ] [/ QUOTE ] G. Orwell: [ QUOTE ] freedom is slavery [/ QUOTE ] PS: hahahahah I knew as soon as I saw that Copernicus responded that he'd defend Santorum's nonsense. natedogg [/ QUOTE ] wow and I was wrong that you didnt fall back on one of your ludicrous social security rants. [/ QUOTE ] It's ok. When one doesn't understand how social security works the critiques seem ludicrous. natedogg [/ QUOTE ] Just want to point out, no matter how you feel about Copernicus and his politics, he is well informed on Social Security. He is a qualified actuary, I think it is safe to say that he has a pretty good understanding of how the system works. [/ QUOTE ] While he may have skills in actuarial accounting, he labors under several egregious misconceptions about the nature of the social security program and how it works. I've outlined them many times before. Maybe I'll start another thread about it since it seems everytime he posts in a thread where i'm participating he takes a shot at me over our past SS discussions. natedogg
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#38
11-14-2007, 02:10 PM
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Re: Conservative Definition of Freedom
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Rudy G: [ QUOTE ] Freedom is about authority. Freedom is about the willingness of every single human being to cede to lawful authority a great deal of discretion about what you do. [/ QUOTE ] [/ QUOTE ] G. Orwell: [ QUOTE ] freedom is slavery [/ QUOTE ] PS: hahahahah I knew as soon as I saw that Copernicus responded that he'd defend Santorum's nonsense. natedogg [/ QUOTE ] wow and I was wrong that you didnt fall back on one of your ludicrous social security rants. [/ QUOTE ] It's ok. When one doesn't understand how social security works the critiques seem ludicrous. natedogg [/ QUOTE ] Just want to point out, no matter how you feel about Copernicus and his politics, he is well informed on Social Security. He is a qualified actuary, I think it is safe to say that he has a pretty good understanding of how the system works. [/ QUOTE ] While he may have skills in actuarial accounting, he labors under several egregious misconceptions about the nature of the social security program and how it works. I've outlined them many times before. Maybe I'll start another thread about it since it seems everytime he posts in a thread where i'm participating he takes a shot at me over our past SS discussions. natedogg [/ QUOTE ] I'm definitely interested in seeing this.Be even better if you two could avoid the potshots at each other and stick to SS. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]
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#39
11-14-2007, 02:42 PM
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Re: Conservative Definition of Freedom
[ QUOTE ]
For me freedom is useless without an attempt at equality. I won't hold it to perfection to support it, but it is important to me that the principle is there. Without equality freedom seems to me like nothing more than access to air without access to water. [/ QUOTE ] sigh. Freedom is letting the chips fall as they may.
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#40
11-14-2007, 04:13 PM
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Re: To Copernicus
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Just want to point out, no matter how you feel about Copernicus and his politics, he is well informed on Social Security. He is a qualified actuary, I think it is safe to say that he has a pretty good understanding of how the system works. [/ QUOTE ] I agree. Copernicus, Would you be willing to "go in the well" on this forum where we ask you questions about SS in a separate thread. Might help to clear up possible misconceptions including mine. I cleared this with iron81 in advance and he's ok with it. [/ QUOTE ] Its all been covered before but thats fine with me. If "in the well" is supposed to be more "immediate" than just responding to Qs when I happen to be around, then it would be better next week. Im traveling the rest of this week.
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