What is your UTG hand range?

[whyherro]

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ok I don't want to dilute the general adivce in this thread, which is to drop the suited connectors UTG.

some food for thought: I've run 26/20 for 30k hands at 25 and 50nl, raising suited connectors and one gappers (I treat them the same) 45s-QJs in the first two positions about 50% of the time according to PT, to give a total of 309 hands for -0.15 big blinds/hand.

Obviously sample size is an issue here, but I would imagine that your 'true' winrate with a single type of hands in a certain position will converge much more quickly than overall WR (e.g. you should be about work out that 93o UTG is not going to be profitable fairly quickly).

A couple of notes:

The most striking thing about my SC stats in EP is that my W$SF is very low - 36% - compared to an overall value of 50-55% in the first two positions. I don't know whether I'm not playing them hard enough, or whether there's some sort of bunching type effect going on (where if I open with a poor hand UTG it is more likely someone has a good hand).

Secondly, I do win with SCs in EP+blinds at about +0.15BB/hand. Sample size, well timed 3bets, cheap completions, who knows?

Thirdly, I think there was some thread where all the HSNL players discovered they were losing with their SCs in EP. A lot of them then argued this was fine because it got them action on their strong EP hands. The validity of this argument is very questionable in uNL. I do think the EP raise gets respect, but people are very unlikely to change their hand ranges in response to you unless it's very dramatic.


Anyway, FWIW, here's my graph:




I'd be very interested to see other people's results with SCs in EP, however often you play them.

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I tend to be in the camp that think suited connectors and suited gappers (most of them) have no inherent value - we play them simply to even out our range so that we are a lot less predictable. They serve this purpose well because postflop its generally easy to tell where we are in a hand and oftentimes our holding is well disguised.

I guess the conclusion is: at 25NL and 50NL, I think it's probably not the best idea to go crazy with suited connected and suited gappers from early position because people are so poor at estimating ranges anyway.

[Waingro]

My UTG range depends a lot on table conditions. If the table is full of loose-passive droolers (and what table isn´t?), I raise suited 2-gappers, suited kings, A8o+, KTo+, connectors 9To+. If table is more aggressive or tighter I tighten up a lot to converge with the consensus of this thread.

[C4LL4W4Y]

Uhh, playing pots UTG at a table of loose passives with 9To is not a good strategy. The tighter the table, the looser your opening range should be.

[Waingro]

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Uhh, playing pots UTG at a table of loose passives with 9To is not a good strategy. The tighter the table, the looser your opening range should be.

[/ QUOTE ]
Why not, I can vb my top pairs and they are going to let me draw cheaply if I flop a draw. If I am at a more TAGy table I am not going to see many flops if they find out I open with 9To UTG. And I think you underestimate your opponents, they often only play one table and they definately pay attention, they just don´t adjust very well. They call pf with ATC, don´t rr and stack off with any piece of the flop once they have found out you are FOS.

[bozzer]

offsuit connectors are fairly rank IMO.

[Waingro]

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offsuit connectors are fairly rank IMO.

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So there is no opponents and no table conditions that 9To can´t be played profitably UTG? That is a pretty big statement. My point wasn´t that you should play bad hands all the time, rather that my UTG raising range is heavily dependant on table conditions. How is that hard to understand?

[skiller3]

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Uhh, playing pots UTG at a table of loose passives with 9To is not a good strategy. The tighter the table, the looser your opening range should be.

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Why not, I can vb my top pairs and they are going to let me draw cheaply if I flop a draw. If I am at a more TAGy table I am not going to see many flops if they find out I open with 9To UTG. And I think you underestimate your opponents, they often only play one table and they definately pay attention, they just don´t adjust very well. They call pf with ATC, don´t rr and stack off with any piece of the flop once they have found out you are FOS.

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I agree with this. While you aren't making money ON THE FLOP by raising weaker hands against such opponents, your implied odds against weak/easily value-towned opponents post-flop is better. In other words:

bad opponents=play more hands against them

[Fiksdal]

grunch..

at a tight table:
22+, AT+, A9s+, KQ+

at a loose table:
22+, AJ+, ATs+, KQs+

[Nogatsira]

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grunch..

at a tight table:
22+, AT+, A9s+, KQ+

at a loose table:
22+, AJ+, ATs+, KQs+

[/ QUOTE ]

my range exactly

[C4LL4W4Y]

yup it's a good one