10/20nl tough river decision.

[AcTiOnJaCsOn]

shoving with this hand on this board is obv out of the question, folding is also but i liek calling it. This is sort of an obvious default line on the river but folding seems kinda tight, but i think its a lot closer than people think. hes just to unpredictable to fold imo as he can even beturning a hand like top pair (if he would call 2 streets with that) into a bluff if he views you as tight. I guess i might fold, but id probably just end up calling

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i think you should keep buying in for 400 so you don't have touch decisions like this

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[Victor]

serioulsy, can one of you geniuses tell me why he didnt checkraise the flop with a flush draw?

[leatherass]

I forgot to comment on why he may have chose not to play a flush draw fast. The flop was ak9. So he knows that since I raised preflop that if he tries to c/r a flush draw he knows that one of two things are going to happen. A. he will take down a small pot when I fold. B. I am going no where with aq,ak,aa,kk,99, and I will reraise or pop him on the turn which will leave him in a very sick spot. I think on that particular board it's not a good idea to try and play draws fast as if I do have the hand I'm repping I'm going absolutely nowhere. If the board was draw heavy his fold equity on later streets especially goes way up as good players can find folds on drawy boards given they know they are slightly ahead or way behind. So that's why I think he didn't play a flush draw fast there."

[praios]

fold > call > shove

[Victor]

la, you raised on the button. that is what? 45% of hands? seems like he will win a small pot a very large percent of the time here.

[aislephive]

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serioulsy, can one of you geniuses tell me why he didnt checkraise the flop with a flush draw?

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Samo mixes it up a ton, I imagine he will c/c and c/r this flop with a similar frequency.

Also I would call this but not feel too great about it.

[leatherass]

WEll I ended up folding for the reasons below. When I later cointed all of the combinations of hands I thought he could play that way and ran the math on everything it appeared as if folding was slightly better than calling. But who knows. It definitely was a close decision and when I first thought of folding I was wondering if I had lost my mind..lol.

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Ok so maybe if I post my thoughts it will create more discussion. I origionally posted this hand on stoxpoker but therea re only like 6-7 good high limit players on that forum. So this is copy/pasted from stox to here. The post below is my follow up post on my first repsonse where I go into one more point. To all of the really good players out there, I would love to hear your thoughts on my logic. I am usually not much of a folder so this one really wieghed on me.

"What hand could he possibly play this way that I beat? If I were villan I could maybe justify calling the turn with a hand like ace 10. However, I don't think he can be too excited about making 2 pair given I nearly potted the turn. The only hands that a good player will do that with is a semi bluff with diamonds or a big hand like ak,kk or aa. I guess on occasion if a guy has a low wtsd I may just bet total air again and hope he folds a weak ace. But given that he perceives me as logical then how can he bet 2 pair on that river and think that it is a tremendous value bet? How often can he expect a solid player to call with a hand like aq which is the only hand he can think about getting value from? My guess is that if he did have ace ten then his plan must've been to go bet/fold. Right? Also the river was pretty scary even for ace ten.

Then you have to think about how many combinations of hands there are that he could play this way and how many I beat. I don't want to get to much into this but there are a bunch of hands that include two diamonds in them yet what is the liklihood he has ace ten given it would have to be the case ace and one of the three other tens? Not too many. Now also what are the odds he totally put a move on me? I would say probably a zero percent chance. So the more I think about it I think folding was definitely the play and I don't feel bad about it at all. I'm not saying it's an easy fold by wany means but I do think that folding was best. Anyone?



I forgot to comment on why he may have chose not to play a flush draw fast. The flop was ak9. So he knows that since I raised preflop that if he tries to c/r a flush draw he knows that one of two things are going to happen. A. he will take down a small pot when I fold. B. I am going no where with aq,ak,aa,kk,99, and I will reraise or pop him on the turn which will leave him in a very sick spot. I think on that particular board it's not a good idea to try and play draws fast as if I do have the hand I'm repping I'm going absolutely nowhere. If the board was draw heavy his fold equity on later streets especially goes way up as good players can find folds on drawy boards given they know they are slightly ahead or way behind. So that's why I think he didn't play a flush draw fast there."

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[ActionJeff]

lots of "good" players make these type of idiot calls on the turn with bare flush draws all the time. I'm not sure if Samo falls into this category and haven't really played him, just a general statement. I think a lot of winning regulars have plugged this type of leak at this point, but I still see some big winning players make these kind of bad turn calls at random times.

I remember playing LuckyULSA HU and he called $9k turn bet in $11k pot with $25k behind and a bare flush draw (then got there on river, open shoved, got payed off by my 2 pair obv lolz)

[FoxwoodsFiend]

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I remember playing LuckyULSA HU and he called $9k turn bet in $11k pot with $25k behind and a bare flush draw (then got there on river, open shoved, got payed off by my 2 pair obv lolz)

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well Ulsa probably thought his jack high was good also and the flush draw was just a nice perk