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#31
07-01-2007, 05:57 PM
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Re: Why aren\'t there more private roads?
[ QUOTE ]
OP, are you a voluntaryist? If not, why not. Do roads have anything to do with it? [/ QUOTE ] Im in a nebulous area where Im too much of a statist for the AC people and too much of an AC person for the mainstream. I dont think government should own property, but I prefer a very limited government that is allowed to pass a few regulations, and collect taxes for a very limited number of things. However, tax dollars shouldnt go to public employees, but firms competing in those industries. Much of this viewpoint stems from game theory. Just as an exmaple, did you read the parasite dilemma in SMP? Government intervention that dictates players to contribute is better than the indiviualistic solution. (Then again, in theory at least, a group of individuals who see this, *should* enact some ruling body to remedy the solution.) Obviously, the situtaions in which Im OK with government intervention is going to be somewhat arbitrary, and certainly a matter for debate, but that would really sidetrack the thread. 
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#33
07-01-2007, 06:20 PM
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Re: Why aren\'t there more private roads?
[ QUOTE ]
Roads is for you not a reason to justify government, right? [/ QUOTE ] Correct. Though, as stated above, I feel some form of reasonable allowance for competition shoudl be enforced. [ QUOTE ] So if that's the case, would you agree that most governments therefore are road-maffias? [/ QUOTE ] If, as stated above, governments make it intentially difficult for private road makers, then, if not maffias, certainly they are in the wrong.
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#34
07-01-2007, 06:26 PM
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Re: Why aren\'t there more private roads?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Roads is for you not a reason to justify government, right? [/ QUOTE ] Correct. Though, as stated above, I feel some form of reasonable allowance for competition shoudl be enforced. [/ QUOTE ] What do you mean? What, how, etc.
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#35
07-01-2007, 06:36 PM
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Re: Why aren\'t there more private roads?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Roads is for you not a reason to justify government, right? [/ QUOTE ] Correct. Though, as stated above, I feel some form of reasonable allowance for competition shoudl be enforced. [/ QUOTE ] What do you mean? What, how, etc. [/ QUOTE ] I said above, I dont think its far fetched to imagine a situation in which a private owner could block out competition. (The example above, in which an owners permission was necessary before competition could enter) One possible solution to this problem, is to simply force the owner to allow compeition to connect to his roadways. There are perhaps other, more elegant solutions. How? Well, assuming there exists a government, a simple law is all that is necessary, in addition to some body that decides when a request to connect to a system is "reasonable"... without a government... well, thats your job [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]
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#36
07-01-2007, 06:40 PM
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Re: Why aren\'t there more private roads?
But wouldn't the govt itself then not be an organization preventing competition? What gives the govt the right to have such a position of power and not private property owners?
Following your logic there should then also be an uber-government controlling the entire planet, making sure the sub-governments are not preventing competition. Also I'm still unsure about your example. You say a private owner blocks out competition. Well. So what? Don't property owners only have control over their own property? Isn't the idea of property that it's your own and nobody has a right over it but you?
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#37
07-01-2007, 06:57 PM
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Re: Why aren\'t there more private roads?
[ QUOTE ]
But wouldn't the govt itself then not be an organization preventing competition? What gives the govt the right to have such a position of power and not private property owners? Following your logic there should then also be an uber-government controlling the entire planet, making sure the sub-governments are not preventing competition. [/ QUOTE ] I dont know. Maybe. Never really thought of this. [ QUOTE ] Also I'm still unsure about your example. You say a private owner blocks out competition. Well. So what? Don't property owners only have control over their own property? Isn't the idea of property that it's your own and nobody has a right over it but you? [/ QUOTE ] You dont think its a pretty big slash against the efficiencies of an AC world to find an example where competition cant enter a market?
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#38
07-01-2007, 07:15 PM
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Re: Why aren\'t there more private roads?
Competition in what? Violent aggression?
Unless people are aggressing on others or their property, why is there a problem? Let's say I make operating systems. And that I am making such awesome products that all my competitors are losing shares. Is this bad? So what I'm saying here is: try to get down to the lowest level of *people* interacting and if there is something immoral about their behaviour. If it turns out to just be people minding their own business, then I don't see a problem. But if we look at the actions of state agents, then that's not what happens. For example: when I try to compete with state schools and I don't comply to their laws, then they will drag me to their dungeons by force and shoot me if I resist. And all I did was interact peacefully with teachers, property owners and students.
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#39
07-01-2007, 07:20 PM
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Re: Why aren\'t there more private roads?
"Let's say I make operating systems. And that I am making such awesome products that all my competitors are losing shares. Is this bad?"
Of course not. But that isnt the situation at hand either. Again, lets get back to the road example discussed above. Ill quote, [ QUOTE ] Consider towns A and B, about 10 miles apart, with nothing much going on in the middle. Consider that you are the owner of the stretch of road connecting the two towns (and assume there is just the one road). Call it road X. Assume also that you own some of the roads in towns A and B. If a person comes to you, and says "Id like to build a road that competes with road X. I believe I can offer travellers a better travelling oppurtunity at a cheaper cost. However, I will need to connect in to your roads in towns A and B before I will be able to get business. I will need your permission." Do you say yes, with the knowledge that all the newfounded road will do is detract business from you? [/ QUOTE ] What do you say? Do you think most would allow the competition to enter? If not, is this a monopoly in the market of roads between A and B.?
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#40
07-01-2007, 08:16 PM
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Re: Why aren\'t there more private roads?
[ QUOTE ]
There is absolutely nothing naturally monopolistic about the roads at all, in the slightest. It's just another myth that is perpetuated to justify monopolizing an incredibly important sector of the economy. [/ QUOTE ] Can you explain? (serious question) I don't see how my house (which is blocked on 3 sides by other buildings) can physically have an additional, competing road serve it.
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