We both saw her card!

[Al_Capone_Junior]

When a card is flashed it should be turned face up and replaced by the burn card at the end of the deal, the flashed card becoming the new burn. It is only a misdeal if the flashed card is one of the first two off the deck (either blind's first card) or in most rooms the button's first card**, or if more than one card is exposed. Sounds like some general all-around nut-kickings are in order here.

You are not wrong to point out a flashed card.

Al

**this rule of the button's first card being exposed causes a misdeal is based on the supposed "logic" that since the button would get two cards in a row, he's now more likely to get a pair. However, by default this assumes that the dealer has not sufficiently shuffled the deck, and that they haven't been properly killing hands either. It may be ever so slightly more likely but in reality this rule simply causes more misdeals and wastes time. It's a rule made up by nits and technicality freaks. Unfortunately many of these idiotic rules that remain commonplace are accepted without question thanks to the lemming-like mentality that all good red-blooded americans have

[RR]

[ QUOTE ]
My main point is that this "I saw it, so it's exposed" rule isn't universal, and one should check with floor staff before relying on it.



[/ QUOTE ]

I was just pointing out that it should be universal, but it isn't.

[frommagio]

[ QUOTE ]
Obviously I'm speaking with a bit of flair, as I've never seen a card fly around the room and bounce off tables and hit a floorman's head and then land face-down on the table, but I have had a few situations where it's done a two-wheel lean but lands face-down, and that for sure plays. I agree the extreme end is a little silly, but I also understand how this entire subject is a gray area open to angle-shooting.

I'm not going to say where I work. I think my room has a lot of silly and inconsistent policies (like the magical muck), and I'd like to continue to feel free to comment on them. I'll say it's a SF Bay Area room. I'm sure someone paying attention to my posts over the months could figure it out, but I ask that people not speculate here. Thank you.

[/ QUOTE ]

Please ask your floor supervisor this: If two people saw a card, and they announced it correctly (despite it landing face down), would that card play?

Your earlier post sounded quite certain of this. Some of us find this so shocking as to be unbelievable.

I suppose it's possible, but it's just hard for me to believe.

[pfapfap]

I have asked one of the most senior, knowledgable, and intelligent floor staff about this.

No matter what happens between the dealer releasing it and it landing on the felt, if it lands face down, it plays.

This makes sense to me. It's very rare that a card will do such a thing, but it's a lot less rare that someone would try to angle-shoot (alone or with a buddy) to try to get a better second card and/or kill another player's card. This removes gray area.

[magoo]

Down with dealers. No more of all this nonsense, like exposed cards...Bring on the electronic tables. Poker will change, but so does everything else.

[frommagio]

[ QUOTE ]
I have asked one of the most senior, knowledgable, and intelligent floor staff about this.

No matter what happens between the dealer releasing it and it landing on the felt, if it lands face down, it plays.

This makes sense to me. It's very rare that a card will do such a thing, but it's a lot less rare that someone would try to angle-shoot (alone or with a buddy) to try to get a better second card and/or kill another player's card. This removes gray area.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, I guess it's just one more example of how it pays to know the local rules. I would hope that really strange variations would be prominently posted, because nobody is going to ask about something like this upfront. It's not quite as bad as "Excuse me, but do straights beat flushes on Tuesday nights?", but it is quite bizarre.

On the other hand, we can all be thankful that unusual situations only come up rarely!

[psandman]

[ QUOTE ]
This makes sense to me. It's very rare that a card will do such a thing, but it's a lot less rare that someone would try to angle-shoot (alone or with a buddy) to try to get a better second card and/or kill another player's card.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually cards flashing is probably more common then flipping. But in any event I'm not sure how you think a player could angle shoot trying to get a better card or kill another players card. If the card really didn't flash then the player has no way of knowing whether its a "good" card or a "bad" card so they have nothing to gain.

[RR]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This makes sense to me. It's very rare that a card will do such a thing, but it's a lot less rare that someone would try to angle-shoot (alone or with a buddy) to try to get a better second card and/or kill another player's card.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually cards flashing is probably more common then flipping. But in any event I'm not sure how you think a player could angle shoot trying to get a better card or kill another players card. If the card really didn't flash then the player has no way of knowing whether its a "good" card or a "bad" card so they have nothing to gain.

[/ QUOTE ]

The only angle I am aware of (and easily prevented) is a late position players says "I saw a black ace" when an early position player raises while the dealer is still dealing.

[pfapfap]

I get my first card. Ace. Yay. I get my second card. Low diamond. Boo. I gesture to my fried. "I saw a flash."

I'm in the 3-seat. Dealer pitches to me and quickly is looking the other way. I don't like my card. "My card flashed, I'm pretty sure these people saw it, they're lying if they said they didn't."

I simply don't like someone in another seat. "I saw a black face card."

That kind of thing.

I'm not disagreeing that it's a bit against the norm, but I don't think it's as absurd as people on here are making it seem. I don't feel too strongly one way or another. I can certainly see a lot of our regulars trying to pull some of this stuff. Maybe not constantly, but enough to warrant this sort of policy. I think the risk of the occasional person's hand being partially known to a couple of people is less so than the headache involved in regular claims of flashing.

But the main point is that the "I saw the card" thing isn't universa.

[bav]

[ QUOTE ]
I get my first card. Ace. Yay. I get my second card. Low diamond. Boo. I gesture to my fried. "I saw a flash."

[/ QUOTE ]
nono... you don't get to look at your card and THEN ask for another. Yes, I've seen that done and yes, the dealer fell for it. Yes, that's an angle. That's really simple to prevent--you don't get to look at your cards and then request a replacement.

I believe that's right up there among the dumbest room rules I've ever heard.